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Ram Airs Crash in 2003

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taabsr
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Postby taabsr » Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:30 am

Check again, all of those brands are testing foil kites. and not only for snow kite. Why would they be closed ram air kites???
They see the potencial of it but till now they haven't come up with anything better than FS or petter lyn so no point in advertising it!

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Postby chemosavi » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:06 pm

Last I read on this forum Naish had hired one of Flysurfer's designers and was working on a foil.

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Postby taabsr » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:23 pm

there is even a video of it in http://www.foils.nl

it's not for snow only since it's a closed cell kite. Funny how it resembles to te warrior from FS. I wonder why?

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Postby sq225917 » Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:30 pm

turned back into a good thread again....

foil kites are at least as valid as lei designs, they both surpass each other in specific criteria, and which of these criteria is most important will lead to your buying descision. no arguement there i stand by my experience of specific criteria, just because the psycho hangs better than anything short of a paraglider doesnt make it a great kite, for most people its not, for me it was passable generally but had exceptional depower and hangtime, otherwise it was shit.

on a lighter note, played out today with the 10m voodoo in about 20mph on the stock settings. i can see where they are goign with this design and it works well, all the standard flysurfer highpoints are as expected, i found the kite a little too grunty for my current taste, but it was on grunty settings. i think it would make an excellent alternative for people looking for a buggy, board, water and snow kite, but for kite surfing alone it doesnt light my candle. if i get tiem to try it for a full day on all settings i'll put a review up. it certainly warrants looking at for anyone who wants a multi use kite.

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Postby cyclone » Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:24 am

Yes i am aware of the foils being developed by those companies but they are indeed intended for snow use as there is a huge market there which they are missing out on by and large.

I am strictly talking about kitesurfing on the water, and as far as i know none of those companies are working on a kitesurfing foil. Maybe they toyed with the idea but have realized its not as good to this date.

Every year all the big companies are getting their kites to turn faster im sure you have all noticed. Its because faster turning (up until a point we havnt reached yet) means more possibilities. I love the hang and float of my big kite but hate how slow it turns. The GARC 13m i owned was very slow even at only 13m flat size and hated it too. How many of you use the slow turning pigtails on your big kite???

Still nobody has anwered my question, WHY buy a slow turing kite when you can buy a fast turning kite (big kite)?

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Postby BLOWN AWAY » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:39 am

BLOWN AWAY wrote:soooooooo if that's the case then, why aren't C Quads dominating the first 50 places at kiteboarding comps worldwide if that's all the pros want in a big kite???? Simple.....

.... because kiteboarding comps are not held in light winds... that's why... and LEI kites work great in decent wind.... and C quads don't work anywhere near as well.

>>>>>>> Horsez 4 coresezzz :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: 8) :oops: 8) 8) :oops: 8) :oops: 8) :oops: 8) :oops: :x :x :x :x :x :x :x 8) :oops: :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb: :wink: :wink: :thumb: :wink: :thumb: :wink: :thumb: :thumb: :wink: :thumb: :x :x :x :x

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Postby cyclone » Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:36 am

So if you agree that foils cant compete in competitions with the best riders using them then your agreeing with everything ive said so far in this thread...

B/A youve flown foils and LEI what do you prefer overall? Your opinoin counts as you are an experienced kiter.

Ive flown both and i prefer LEI, SQ has flown and represented both and prefers LEI, i could go on but the trend is- EXPERIENCED kiters prefer LEI.

The only reason we have debates like this is because the people who get suckered into buying foils for the water (me) get the shits and want to tell everybody not to make the same mistake.

Hell if you want me to continue, ill start a new poll "people whove flown both foils and LEI, which do you prefer" and well look at the results shall we???

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Postby Jupu » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:11 am

hahah... "what a horse-shit string" and still I have to contribute...:-)
I think the foils have an edge over LEI`s in winterkiting in low winds due to their different jumping technique where you don´t need to edge. This holds true specially in ice with only a thin snow cover - it´s quite impossible to produce a good boost in a quite adequate 5-6 m/s wind with a 20m2 LEI because you simply don´t have the grip as in water. In better winds the difference is equalised, if not reversed. Foils have also better usability and launching on ice. To my understanding, big foils are finally starting to have shorter bars, lighter&faster turning thus making me a good candidate for trying one out. On water, the story is quite different. I really would´t want to end up with a foil going through even a small washout in waves since the game is then, whatever the foil-people say.

Often people have to explain to themselves that they are right, even if they don´t know shit about things. What really makes me wonder, is how some can take say a Ford Mustang to be the god in their lives thus making them defend it with all they have. Despite the fact that there are real cars out there..:-)

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Postby Thisl » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:31 am

I really would´t want to end up with a foil going through even a small washout in waves since the game is then, whatever the foil-people say.
Please tell me more, what is your problem with foils in waterwashout?
Up to now, I only watched LEI getting smashed in waves, even new NITRO not able to waterstart in the surf, when the foils and other Leis had fun...
It is well known, that modern foils waterstart better than Lei.

Have fun,
thisl

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Postby Jupu » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:34 am

mr Munich must be a Flysurfer customer...? :-)
I just wonder what happens to it after having been rolled inside a 2-3 m wave, being rolled through it´s own lines and filled with 400 liters of water? Yes, probably a LEI would be ripped to pieces too. I´ve seen guys shitting their pants after once again dropping his psyko and filling it with water to a degree that it won´t start. Game over, specially in cold waters. On ice, once stalling, the Psyko sometimes seem to roll inside it´s own lines creating such a mess that you nor anyone else will restart with it unless you untangle the whole mess. Never seen with a LEI.
But, I should buy one and try it out too see the goods and bads of foils, maybe the Titan would be a more developed version? Maybe the flap-system will give it a better turning behaviour and better stability? Psyko 2 maybe?

But as said above, it´s amazing how furiously people tend to defend their choices thus being unable to stay neutral. The biggest problem with gearing up with both LEI`s and foils just to have a neutral opinion is just so fckn expensive...

...and this shit what PMU is laying out... the worst case flame-bait. It´s partly true that foils are not much seen comps or in HC - locations but it really doesn´t make them worse kites than LEIs. They´re just different and I really wonder the motives of somebody starting a narrow minded "manhunt" agaist a design-philosophy of kites?!? It´s like owing your life for preaching against silver coloured cars.


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