Comparative risk of kitesurfing

[Jan:)]

I totally agree with the low occurrence high severity idea.

I think this is about 100% right.
In kiteboarding you have a rather high fatality rate, even from people who think they do not take any risks. In snowbaording for example, a beginner has pretty much no risk of getting killed.

This is pretty similar to crimes. You would likely call a place where you have a 0.001% chance of getting killed much more "dangerous" than a place where you have a 10% chance of getting robbed.

[nj2333]

I've been following this thread with interest. PaulMcD i think is on the right track and says some important points.
You are never going to completely eliminate the risk in kiteboarding, but you can reduce it.

But how?...
well competence, knowledge and experience of kitesurfing and changing weather conditions. A good teacher will not only teach you the skills of good kite control but also what hazards to look out for. How many times have you seen big clouds coming in, the water get choppy and you think because all your friends are out the you will also be safe?...don't assume that because you are in a big group that YOU will be ok..always think ahead - depower and if in doubt come in and wait to see what happens. Optimistic bias can lead you to think that you will be ok - even though the conditions are changing.

some of the worst cases i've seen happen on the beach - all of you must have at one time seen someone get hurt. Christian Harris one of the leading teachers here in the UK once said to me - "As soon as you have launched - get to the water as quickly as possible - don't pussy foot around" - if you've ever been lofted unexpectedly then you know why this advice is solid.

You can reduce risk by simply thinking through some of you own situations that got you into trouble...whether its jumping in shallow water, launching on a crowded beach or even kitelooping and getting some whiplash...the clever ones think about it and the not so clever ones think they can get away with it..

anyway - i'll say no more. take it easy
Nick
http://www.nobileboardtour.com

[PaulMcD]

I appreciate some of the kind words about my post. I do want to comment briefly on Tom183's post that pointed out that we should not blame kiting if a kiter does something stupid like jump a stone jetty as I mentioned in my post. I agree completely.

The issue however, is that when that kiter misses the jump, smashes into the jetty and gets killed, the fatality gets written down as a kiting accident. This sort of makes my point that we can only make every effort to train ourselves not to do stupid things with a kite and to encourage others to do the same. Even so, we will fail some of the time and when we do, inevitably, because of the inherent risk in kiting, there will be injuries and fatalities.

Safety is an issue very much on my mind when I rig and launch my kite. Even so, I have been guilty many times of rushing because I am so stoked by the wind. Or I have stood around on a beach too long on a gusty day chatting with someone or any of a 100 other things. A combination of my diligence, skill and a dose of luck has kept me out of trouble so far but all of us need to fight complacency on safety while not letting fear overwhelm our joy of how much fun kiting can be.

This is a fine balance that will never be completely resolved one way or the other.

[RickI]

Often high wind or powered accidents involve very little time to react. Based on the outcome of many of these sad accidents, not ENOUGH time to react. At least for individuals who may not have spent much time practicing emergency depowering. There is a fair percentage, at least with older C kites in which there was insufficient time for virtually anyone to react once things are in motion. Wrap a wing tip on a flat kite or otherwise make the lines uneven and there may be little difference.

Awareness and avoidance are key.

To reliably avoid something you need to understand it well, advanced signs, preventative measures and what to do if it looms up on you.

If people never bother to consider good technique (preflighting, downwind buffers, weather planning, proper assisted launching/landing, etc.) and try to learn about emergency scenarios along with practicing total depowering, self rescue, understanding the need for basic safety gear (good helmet, impact vest, knives, etc.), a percentage will set themselves up for some rough times. Like simply steering an airplane, kiting can be deceptively easy until things go south.

Who is most at risk of severe accidents in this sport, newbies or experienced guys and why? How to reduce risk in a activity? Hint: knowledge will set you free.


FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

[Tom183]

I appreciate some of the kind words about my post. I do want to comment briefly on Tom183's post that pointed out that we should not blame kiting if a kiter does something stupid like jump a stone jetty as I mentioned in my post. I agree completely.

The issue however, is that when that kiter misses the jump, smashes into the jetty and gets killed, the fatality gets written down as a kiting accident. This sort of makes my point that we can only make every effort to train ourselves not to do stupid things with a kite and to encourage others to do the same. Even so, we will fail some of the time and when we do, inevitably, because of the inherent risk in kiting, there will be injuries and fatalities.

Safety is an issue very much on my mind when I rig and launch my kite. Even so, I have been guilty many times of rushing because I am so stoked by the wind. Or I have stood around on a beach too long on a gusty day chatting with someone or any of a 100 other things. A combination of my diligence, skill and a dose of luck has kept me out of trouble so far but all of us need to fight complacency on safety while not letting fear overwhelm our joy of how much fun kiting can be.

I agree completely. My point was that when we discuss the "inherent risks" of kitesurfing, particularly with outsiders, we should limit ourselves to what the kite/wind/waves can do to us. We should NOT include rider ignorance or complacency as an "inherent" risk - that is something WE bring to the sport.

Equipment failure is an inherent risk, but the numbers are skewed if you include riders who don't inspect their gear or use worn-out stuff.
Changing weather is an inherent risk, but we shouldn't include what happens to riders who didn't bother to check the forecast or kept riding in the face of obvious signs.
Board strikes are an inherent risk, but the totals are way higher if you include guys with bungie leashes in waves with no helmet.

There's always a chance that, no matter how often you check your gear or the weather forecast, you might still get caught. But it's much much MUCH smaller than if you DON'T check.

The "inherent risks" of kiteboarding are the smaller percentage. But look through the accidents and you'll see that the overwhelming majority can be traced to bad decisions on the part of the rider. In the early days, this was unavoidable since every rider was a test monkey, but it is time for the sport to grow up and for riders to stop taking unneccessary risks.

The law of averages always catches up with someone eventually, and the more guys taking unneccessary risks, the more often that will happen.

[Regis-de-giens]

Following the recent accident two days ago, I launched a discussion on french forum and did some values gathering for france area to compare risks; not focussing on causes here, just the objective (and cold) death numbers per activity type and per estimated hour of practice ; the idea is to assess how 1 hour of kitesurfing compares to car, motocycle, climbing, ski, diving , ect ...

Interesting, kitesurf seems objectively less dangerous that other more popular sport, and not so far from 1 hour car use (1 h kite = 3 h car)

Here is the table I came to yesterday:

it is ordered by the last column which values the risk of death after 1 million hour of activity ; same approach for other countries or even the whole earth would be great ...

[Carlos_C]

Compare with downhill MTB - lots of minor injuries - breakages - not too many fatalities.....Kitesurfing not many minor injuries - but when it goes wrong game over

[Momo_13]

@Regis-de-giens :
You made a mistake in your spreadsheet about hours / year for automobile :
It's closer to 400 h/y and not 40 (for ex in France : 15000 km/year at 40 km/h average)
And the column could be : hours / year / person (for instance there is an average 2 person in an automotive which double the number)

[Regis-de-giens]

yes for the automotive it is a bit tricky due to the possibility of several user in the same car ; actually I found no number of users nor use rate, but I read that french minister communicated on 1 death every 900 000 hours, which is directly the number I look for for my comparison ; but i do not know if it is 900 000 hours for the car or the result of multiplication by average number of passengers ; if I put your 400 h by 40 millions vehicles, indeed this changes a lot and divide by 10 the risk , but then the figure of the minister seems false; I do not know what is closer to reality, if some of you have some feedback from France or other countries that could feed the table better;

Planes also is certainly over estimated since I think 1 million is the design target but maybe it is higher in real life ; and i do not know if it is for the entire plane or multiplied by passengers ;

Comparison with other sports seems quite representative IMO.

[kite_hh]

What is "speed riding" and "mechanical sports"? Also do the aviation figures include commercial/travel aviation? This may be significantly different from leisure aviation. It is also a matter of professional vs. amateur, which I think will make a difference.