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Starsky
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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Starsky » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:34 am

Splices are easy enough but I've yet to need one in replacing a depower line. I avoid em when I can because you either have to lock em with stitching or an exit, wrap and re entry that starts to get bulky and kinda defeats the whole purpose. I'm not sure I see how a splice could make the pictured set up any cleaner. As to strength that line is rated over 3000 lbs. You could knot it any way you want and it will still be the strongest link in the whole bar set up.

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Bushflyr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:03 am

My point was mostly theoretical. A 50% reduction on 3k line is obviously not an issue. If you do the splice correctly, however, the tail completely disappears and makes for super clean line work.

Again, from a completely theoretical standpoint, the bowline around the ring is non optimal, but practically it shouldn't matter at all. I'm just anal about my rigging. :-?

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:54 am

Starsky wrote:Splices are easy enough but I've yet to need one in replacing a depower line. I avoid em when I can because you either have to lock em with stitching or an exit, wrap and re entry that starts to get bulky and kinda defeats the whole purpose. I'm not sure I see how a splice could make the pictured set up any cleaner. As to strength that line is rated over 3000 lbs. You could knot it any way you want and it will still be the strongest link in the whole bar set up.
I'm about to do one for a Switch QR/block/swivel.

The strength of a splice is in the bury... stitching is just to stop an eye splice from coming out when it's not under load.

Someone tested a stitched eye-splice vs brummel vs regular line and found no difference in strength.

Brummel is no more bulky than an eye splice; perhaps a tiny tiny bit bigger and denser, but done right it's nice and clean, and repositionable. All my lines on my Speed3 15 and 21 are done this way.

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Starsky » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:24 pm

You are right, and its not very hard. It's great that you suggest it and get a couple more riders further along the self sufficiency curve. Kite long enough and you should really learn it. I use splices in most flagging/leash line set ups. That bar has a loop sliced in the lower portion of the 5th. It also has bungee spliced/buried in the lower portion to keep it tidy.

Mostly wanted to show the OP that he doesn't have to pay retail for a replacement part and though the part he is replacing in this case does have a number of splices, he can easily simplify the set up and keep it all looking retail clean, and in this particular bar, it doesn't absolutely need a splice.

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby juandesooka » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:08 pm

Thanks for the suggestions all.

I have done splicing before, based on this how to video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9kImggLWUQ

Looking up Brummel splice...I think that's what I have done for other lines (p-line on older BWS Noise). So I guess I'll give it a go for this depower rope too.

One thing I found is that the final step, putting the end through the line, is very difficult with the fid. A half hour of pushing with thumb blisters, and not getting the tail far enough in. This video shows a handy tool that looks to make it way easier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WW7Qvg3VjI

Appreciate all the input!

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Bushflyr » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:08 pm

juandesooka wrote:One thing I found is that the final step, putting the end through the line, is very difficult with the fid. A half hour of pushing with thumb blisters, and not getting the tail far enough in.

Don't use a fid. Just take a skewer or chopstick ~4" long and tape the line to the end of it. Much easier.

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby juandesooka » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:12 pm

would you agree with this rule for how long the tail must be? "The equation that you have to remember form this video is that the tail must be 50X the diameter of the rope. To do this equation I always work in metric so 4mm = 200mm tail 6mm = 300mm tail and so on."

That was the hard part when I tried this ... getting the tail in far enough. Maybe that doesn't matter though?

<and sorry to OP for the thread hijack!>

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Kamikuza » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:41 am

Seems like overkill. Manufacturers who would be liable dont use anywhere near that much.

animatedknots.com is the site, iiirc. MacDonald Brummell is the easiest one.

Right on, starsky!

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Bushflyr » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:03 am

juandesooka wrote:would you agree with this rule for how long the tail must be? "The equation that you have to remember form this video is that the tail must be 50X the diameter of the rope. To do this equation I always work in metric so 4mm = 200mm tail 6mm = 300mm tail and so on."

No that's way too long. It may be a theoretical 100% strength length, but I've seen a ton of splices and never seen one that long. 4-6" seems to be about the norm in 5mm or so line, maybe 2-3" in the small 2-3mm. You're pretty safe if you go something like 1 inch of tail per mm of line thickness.

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Re: Ben Wilson Kite bar

Postby Do-it » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:13 am

Did they name it the ( plug) ?


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