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Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:34 pm
by rightguard
Franz you can hardly call Maui a gental thermal wind spot. It's very common to have strong gusty conditions, especially this winter.

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:28 pm
by flipper231
boardriding maui wrote:The goal is light, fast, fun, range - whatever it is that myself, my family and friends want to ride.
Hi Bro... totally understand what you are saying. We exchanged e-mails (Francis from Montreal) so you know about the yearly migration to the Cape. During one of those migrations, I stopped at the Wright Brothers memorial museum. The guy there gave a very vibrant and animated speech on timeline of the first flight. He spoke about the guy who developpedthe Engine (I think his name was Taylor). Mr Taylor had an request to develop a light and powerfull engine. In 1903, light was heavy and powerfull (they needed 8hp) wasn't by today's standards. He had no clue what the carburator was doing so he ditched it to save weight. He also used aluminum crankcase as it was lighter. So no sparkplug, no pump (gravity fed), and no carburator...in 1903. In todays words, this is a four cylinder, flat pistons, fuel injection aluminium engine. It took a loooong time before it made it to my dad's car (in the 80's). So Greg Wright, keep ditching what we don't need and keep the concept alive by targetting on the purpose as you started to do. I even started to think about how to launch this kite in a wind gradient when there is nothing on the water and plenty 20-30 feet in the air (cold water does that). reverse lanch is not an option but there are potential solutions. Kite boarders are easily adapting and quite creative sometimes.

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:58 pm
by flipper231
ronnie wrote:...I'm very interested in a kite that gets to the lightest possible relaunch wind. At the moment I'm thinking of about 7 or 8 knots although I have seen claims of less for LEI's.

...I would prefer to be able to get to the board and if necessary pack down and paddle in on it, so the lower the relaunch wind, the more chance of being able to get back to the board while attached to a downed kite, whether by swimming or relaunching.
These are interesting points. I realised that no kite will really take of well if you don't touch the bottom below your stated 7-8 knots. But Race kites almost never drop in the water... My Edge is just glued to the sky, even if there is not enough to ride. I have to admit that when I go out in 7-10 knots, the chances for me to have to swim back in are real. So I chose my spots carefully. Of course having struts is a big help when swimming back in: Deflate the LE, roll-up, put it on the board and paddle back to the laghter of your friends who did not bother inflating anything. But the riding objectives seemed to be riding in the waves which is always close to shore. Light wind cruising is also always close to shore for me as our winds are really inconsistant and swimming back is a real possibility (nev er happened as I could always walk back). I put my name in for a 17 and a 10, we will see what SB of my 12-9 and 7 I will keep. But if I want to go for a lake crossing, for safety reasons, the Edge will likely be it. For the fun in the sun, the 10 and the 17 to play with the guys flying heavy 19s

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:16 pm
by tautologies
flipper231 wrote: These are interesting points. I realised that no kite will really take of well if you don't touch the bottom below your stated 7-8 knots. But Race kites almost never drop in the water... My Edge is just glued to the sky, even if there is not enough to ride.
I've gone out in winds where I know if I fall, or miss my tack there is a good change my kite will drop...ie if I lose my speed. With the light wind relaunch system I can get the kite in relaunch position before the wind is strong enough to lift the kite. There is quite a lot of surface stiction, and weight in these kites.

Personally I do not know when the tradeoff between the weight of the kite and the kite-man-board system becomes important, but I can certainly imagine situations where if you fall, or drop the kite a light kite will yield better results in staying afloat.

It is an alluring thought, to generate enough power in light wind to go, yet be light enough to stay in the air in winds not strong enough to otherwise pull you on the board..at least until you can generate enough power. Finding that spot..or if that spot exists is very interesting to me too. :-)

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:44 pm
by flipper231
At least, if your kite is in the air, you can somewhat body drag back towards the shore. but honestly, I still have to find myself in a situation where I will have to swim back (hapened to some friends with their FS 21m). At this point I have come back in less than 10 knots with a 8m Catalyst by working the kite like mad and dipping from time to time since the board would not keep my 199.78 lbs afloat. Again I think an 8m gives you more chance to recover in let say 8-10 knots than a 17, 19 or 21 in 5-6 knots. Above 10, anything will relaunch and drag you back to shore if it is not enough to ride back in.

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:42 am
by panchito
rightguard wrote:Franz you can hardly call Maui a gental thermal wind spot. It's very common to have strong gusty conditions, especially this winter.
I guess , time will tell and really hope you can prove me wrong ...

Regards


Franz

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:03 pm
by BWD
Well, here is what time has told us for the last decade or so:
maui wind.png
maui wind.png (20.85 KiB) Viewed 2326 times
When I was there, in summer, the typical forecast was strong gusty wind, 20 to 35mph, every day for a week or so, then a little break, maybe only gusts to 25 for a few days before the trades kick back in....
Definitely lots of gusty wind in maui, since it has 10-20knots trade winds, plus another 10-15 on top of that when thermal and funnel effects from the isthmus and mountains kick in in the afternoon.
Sometimes they do get stronger wind, though, into the 40s....

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:17 am
by herculon
what is the weight of the 17 sqm, kite+bridles ?
i think we could have a new "winner" in the category "lightest tube kite" !

time to update the "weight / projected area" list:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2360753

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:48 pm
by Pierrot
It seems it did not take long before the "strutless" idea got copied by a major brand...

Only in 16m, here is the airush lithium zero.

Image

Re: Strutless kite in development on Maui

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:53 pm
by windsuks
Logical though, they have a one strut kite and haven't they been testing a non strut kite for a few years now?