Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
simokite
Rare Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:39 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Rome (Italy)

RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby simokite » Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:52 pm

Hy guys,
I'm very keen on this new surfboard shape..but here in Italy it's actually impossible to find and try out a Vanguard...so I was thinking about the new RRD whose shape seems to be very closed to the famous sister...
Have someone had the chance to try out the Cotan? Any impression? Any comparison with vanguard?

sckitesurf
Medium Poster
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:47 am
Kiting since: 2006
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby sckitesurf » Sat Nov 22, 2014 12:49 am

Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.

madworld
Frequent Poster
Posts: 282
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:52 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Crissy Field, Ocean Beach, Tuba and the Brick Yard

San Francisco CA USA
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Prodigy 7 m, 9.5 m, Duke 2.0 Surfboard
Brand Affiliation: Ocean Rodeo

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby madworld » Sat Nov 22, 2014 1:13 am

sckitesurf wrote:Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.

iblocalsurfer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 5:34 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Imperial Beach
Favorite Beaches: For kiting: Imperial Beach, Raul's, San Quintin, Strand, Pico
For Surfing: Imperial Beach, Baja Norte
Style: surf
Gear: Blade, North, BWS
Firewire
Location: Imperial Beach, CA

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby iblocalsurfer » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:24 pm

madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


I have the Vanguard but have only seen the others you mention in the adverts. The Vanguard's hull is where I see the biggest difference. While the Vanguard has a very unique channel through the bottom, the others look flat. The "modern planning hull," as Tomo calls it, coupled with the parallel outline is what makes the Vanguard so unique. The board planes much faster than other boards with equal volume.
"Tufflite" also makes exact replicas of most popular surfboard shapes. And, although the construction held up great for kiting, the boards did not perform as well as the originals. They felt corky/stiff.
So, there is more to a board than the outline.

NorCalNomad
Frequent Poster
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:40 am
Kiting since: 1900
Local Beach: San Francisco
Gear: Why should it matter?

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby NorCalNomad » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:49 am

iblocalsurfer wrote:
madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


I have the Vanguard but have only seen the others you mention in the adverts. The Vanguard's hull is where I see the biggest difference. While the Vanguard has a very unique channel through the bottom, the others look flat. The "modern planning hull," as Tomo calls it, coupled with the parallel outline is what makes the Vanguard so unique. The board planes much faster than other boards with equal volume.
"Tufflite" also makes exact replicas of most popular surfboard shapes. And, although the construction held up great for kiting, the boards did not perform as well as the originals. They felt corky/stiff.
So, there is more to a board than the outline.


+1 I was really hoping that Sky (North) would understand that the massive single concave really is a crucial element to the design but the whip and pro have the same amount of concave as any other average board.

FredBGG
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3405
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 3:38 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Malibu

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby FredBGG » Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:54 am

madworld wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:Hit up the guys at TheCornershop www.thecornershop.fr/ they can help you out with a Vanguard. The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.


Please elaberate on "missing the design concept" RRD, Slingshot, North etc.


Just hype

User avatar
ulx
Frequent Poster
Posts: 276
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:31 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: St. Peter-Ording, Germany
Favorite Beaches: Klitmøller area
Style: Strapless Surf- and Foilboard
Gear: Slingshot Wave SST 10,8,6 and rpm 4.5
Celeritas 5.8
Ketos Foil with Kakoo board 108x44
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Hamburg, Germany

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby ulx » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:00 pm

sckitesurf wrote:...The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.

Cool, so you have tried it already? Or at least seen it up close? I haven´t, only some pics and the gleiten.tv video. From what I can see, they do at least they look quite similar. Maybe you could elaborate on your precise insight info?

Very nice product video by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQRvcpghQc

iblocalsurfer
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 771
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 5:34 pm
Kiting since: 2007
Local Beach: Imperial Beach
Favorite Beaches: For kiting: Imperial Beach, Raul's, San Quintin, Strand, Pico
For Surfing: Imperial Beach, Baja Norte
Style: surf
Gear: Blade, North, BWS
Firewire
Location: Imperial Beach, CA

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby iblocalsurfer » Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:16 pm

Here is a video that shows the Vanguard up close, including the contours of the bottom and a thorough explanation of how it works. (@ 2:00)

http://www.shredshow.com/home/category/ ... 0surfboard

FredBGG
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3405
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 3:38 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Malibu

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby FredBGG » Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:36 pm

ulx wrote:
sckitesurf wrote:...The cotan is another attempt that completely missed the design concepts behind the Vanguard.

Cool, so you have tried it already? Or at least seen it up close? I haven´t, only some pics and the gleiten.tv video. From what I can see, they do at least they look quite similar. Maybe you could elaborate on your precise insight info?

Very nice product video by the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jQRvcpghQc



The product video of the Cotan pretty much sums it up. All these boards (vanguard included) are simply Cut-off nose and tail surfboards. Some with one type of hull concave and some with another. All of this has been seen before in non cut off boards. Take a Don Johnson mini gun and cut off the tail and tip.... you will have the same thing.

I'd say the big advantage of these boards is that they are easier to flip backwards to ride over kelp backwards. I'd recommend the cotan over the vanguard simply for the construction. FCS fin boxes just are not unto the forces of kitesurfing. The Futures with larger futures fin boxes are going to be stronger and you can also use Elevon fins that are only available in futures.

felixp
Medium Poster
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:34 am
Kiting since: 12
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: RRD Cotan vs Firewire Vanguard

Postby felixp » Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:59 pm

Honestly save some dollars and go get on a vanguard.
Its the real thing everyone is trying to copy. It is priced very well compared to other kite models and actually works.

https://vimeo.com/112225080


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jeromeL, mkNY, shawn13 and 14 guests