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Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

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bigwave
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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby bigwave » Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:46 pm

reyrivera wrote:Higher overhead cost due to:
1) Cost of living
2) Equipment
3) Insurance
4) Licensing, permits to teach

Similar reasons why goods are manufactured overseas, labor is cheaper elsewhere.
You get what you pay for. Go to Cape Hatteras. Boat based instruction with equipment = riding in a day or two or Caveman instruction with someone telling you to dive the kite as you go drifting down the beach spending most of your time walking. If there is no boat/jet ski based instruction, after putting in your time with a trainer kite 5-15hrs,really all you need is an hour or two going over the basics(self Lauch,Land, Safety etc)with your water kite. Once your at the point of putting the board on, if there is no boat with you your basically on your own.
If I had to learn today ,I would be investigating the boat/Jet Ski style of instruction. You ride right away with no fear of coming back or having to self land by yourself etc. Money well spent!

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby NYKiter » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:23 pm

IKO instructor - I charge $50/hr. always 1 on 1

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby UKRob » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:01 pm

I had lessons in Sharm, they wernt over expensive and once starting to get on board the instructor flew the kite back up wind for you. The really expensive waste of money if your a slow learner or less than fair winds is when your first on your own, renting the schools gear and spending 90% of your time walking back up wind!

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby FredBGG » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:11 pm

bigwave wrote:
reyrivera wrote:Higher overhead cost due to:
1) Cost of living
2) Equipment
3) Insurance
4) Licensing, permits to teach

Similar reasons why goods are manufactured overseas, labor is cheaper elsewhere.
You get what you pay for. Go to Cape Hatteras. Boat based instruction with equipment = riding in a day or two or Caveman instruction with someone telling you to dive the kite as you go drifting down the beach spending most of your time walking. If there is no boat/jet ski based instruction, after putting in your time with a trainer kite 5-15hrs,really all you need is an hour or two going over the basics(self Lauch,Land, Safety etc)with your water kite. Once your at the point of putting the board on, if there is no boat with you your basically on your own.
If I had to learn today ,I would be investigating the boat/Jet Ski style of instruction. You ride right away with no fear of coming back or having to self land by yourself etc. Money well spent!
Boat based instruction is the way to go.

When I wanted my son (12 years old at the time) to learn I looked around and around and found IKO to be bullshit.... other teachers fought from the beach with the student pretty much on their own and with other kiters buzzing them etc. Not really ideal.

Unfortunatly I could not schedule going to a location with boat instructors.

So I bought an inflatable 10HP boat and fought him with a very easy to drift launch/relaunch flysurfer pulse 2. (Propellor cage on the 10 hp motor).

I took him to Long Beach and gave the lessons more than a mile from other kite surfers and in smooth consistent wind. Actually on the first two days no kites could get off the beach, but way out inside the breakwater the wind was perfect.

In 4 hours of lessons he was going upwind, but not before learning how to relaunch, body drag upwind and self rescue ( another 2 hours).

The best thing is that there was so much room for him to just try again and again with all the room in the world down wind.

The great thing is that all the time I was just a few feet upwind of him and he could hear my instructions clear as day.

Once he had learned I sold the boat (that I bought used) for what I had paid for it.

Anyway I highly recommend boat based lessons. Inflatable Zodiac type boat being a very good option. Even small ones are really quite stable.

That said there are very good instructors that do a good job without a boat.

However one thing to really consider for lessons is location.
An area with consistent winds, from the right direction, wind morning and afternoon makes a huge difference.

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby pmaggie » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:15 pm

In Como lake boat teaching is the only option. The plus is that you learn totally safe. The cons are that you never try to launch/land and walk on a beach hooked to your kite.

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby NYKiter » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:54 pm

The issue I see getting students in the water right away is that they are getting the dessert before the meal. Hammering on the 'let go of the f*cking bar' bit on a small kite is crucial before getting on the water IMnonHO...

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby KYLakeKiter » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:37 pm

I agree there are land based tasks that get missed when you teach in deep water, but learning relaunch and self rescue without your feet on the ground are good skills to get right away. Most of the people I have helped with body drags from the boat were very happy with what they learned once they got to a shallow water spot. I'm not saying one way is better than the other. Its just a regional issue of beach available or no beach. We evolve to do what it takes to kite.

As far as the price of lessons, I think it is a factor but often not the most important one. More often what I hear from people is that they go somewhere hoping to get lessons, but on windy days, can't get a lesson. I'm sure it must suck to be an instructor and sit around on windless day and then have more people than you can possibly teach once the wind comes up.

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby Coloradokiter » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:07 pm

To the OP it looks like most people have answered correctly that you get what you pay for. So here is a breakdown of what we see here and what we as instructors have heard over and over again. Rates vary from $50hr to $175hr and maybe more. We even have some new school coming here to South Padre teaching for free (more on that farther down).

This is how we see the breakdown happening here:

$50/hr guy basically comes here seasonally, lives out of his car or finds a friends couch to crash on. Walks around and tries to find students. Has minimal gear sometimes 2 or 3 kites to choose from and the gear is usually 3 to 4 years old and beat. He’s available when he’s available. Meaning if it is good he is out kiting, if it’s marginal he’s trying to grab a student.

Next we see a jump up to $90hr +/-. Our school starts here. These are the locally dedicated schools open year round with Instructors like us available 7 days a week. This is the beginner class rate without boat/jet ski usage (more on this farther down). We have quivers of at least 6 new kites per instructor to be sure we use the right gear for the right student and wind. Students range from 100# women to 300# men so we need to have a good quiver for the right lesson. We teach at this base level until a student is capable to fairly consistently put a board on and start their pop-ups. After that we use the boat or jet ski’s and those cost money to own and run, so the rates change.

Next, rates jump up to $150 to $175hr (us). Yes this is expensive but now we are using a boat and when a student gets up we can stay with them for miles and we use radio helmets for real time instruction. Can’t teach a student to actually ride standing on a beach yelling. We know this rate is expensive so we ONLY go here when we actually put the boat to work. We spend only as much time as needed at the $90/ rate to be sure we do not waste students money/time. I wish to note again these rates are usually by the full time local schools who have invested in a full time school. We have boats (need more than one in case of issues) jet skis, brick and mortar locations that have rent and some of us have docks for our equipment. Dock fees alone anywhere on the East Coast, West Coast and the Gulf are not cheap.

On any of those rates there can be discounts for using your own gear and rates get discounted again if it’s a group of 2 and you share gear. We just wanted to point out the basic rates, at there highest, so that you can see what you are getting.

We as instructors are more than teachers that teach kiteboarding, we feel we are making kiteboarders. Safe kiteboarders who we feel are confident to join the kiting community.

Lastly: there is a new “Model” of instruction coming to South Padre Island that model is for “Free Kiteboarding Lessons”. This was noted earlier in this thread. So with what I’ve tried to show above, you should ask yourself what are you getting for free? We’ve looked at this "Cosco Model" and there are fees all along the way from joining an association to daily gear rentals. So although it is advertised as “Free” it is not. Also the out of state outfit organizing this has no ties to South Padre Island and so really has very little responsibility to the student or the access rights we fight for. Ex: we just spent nearly 200+hrs over the last months talking to the County, the City and private land owners. So “Free” is just a bunch of Bull@#it.

Everyone has the right to choose what they pay. We hope we just gave you an outline as to what you may get.

Joel Parker, instructor
Petra Kanz, instructor
Air Padre Kiteboarding

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby RickI » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:20 pm

I wrote the following for an issue of SBC Kiteboard nine years ago about what to look for in kiting instruction. I saw this as minimum content for basic instruction back then, still do really. There is some updating that could be done to it, still, overall what has changed in terms of need? Cheaping out on something that can clean your clock, cost a bunch of other guys access is a bad idea. Almost as bad as assuming that money will automatically buy you good instruction. You have to use your head in short and shop carefully for quality instruction.
http://fksa.org/showthread.php?t=656

The original unedited text of the article appears below if you have trouble reading the images of the text above.

Quality professional kiteboarding instruction should allow rapid, safer learning under controlled conditions using someone else’s kites and boards. Much of the trial, error, hazards and frustration that plagues folks trying to figure it out on their own can be avoided when you work with a capable instructor. Your speed of advancement in kiteboarding after proper training should also be faster than otherwise. This process should reduce the odds of painful and costly injury, damaged kite gear, threats to our access to ride and give you experience to make your own judgments on what gear to buy. A primary goal of adequate, quality instruction is to aid the rider in becoming an independent kiteboarder to allow safer experience building following training. Don’t fall in the trap of trying to figure out how to kiteboard from scratch with a friend who is new to the sport. This practice is not that uncommon and a very bad idea. There is too much that can go wrong during inexpert “training” and after.

Proper instruction can also help you to avoid looking like a kook. Experienced riders can give kooks a hard time at the local launch. Nobody wants to be an outsider. Learning mistakes accidents/incidents can also lead to bans. Also, there may be a growing trend in which certification is required to access some riding areas.

How much time should you spend in instruction? Can adequate instruction be accomplished in a single lesson, No. A taste of the sport, sure but not much else. SCUBA diving, hang gliding, boat operation and kiteboarding too, demand a realistic amount of time for proper training. Teaching the basic mechanical skills can be fairly quick BUT there is all that knowledge that is needed as well for safer kiteboarding. It’s a package deal, there is knowing how to steer a airplane for example and then there is learning how to OPERATE a plane under all the varied conditions including emergencies. Kiteboarding instructors indicate that first time students are requesting from 3 to 5 lessons currently. Kiteboarders may wish to come back to hone and develop skills following initial training.

Instruction costs however quality instruction may be the best investment you make in kiteboarding. Quality instruction can last a lifetime. For example, I still remember and draw from my first SCUBA diving course over 30 years ago. It was that detailed, effective and launched a fun sport for life.

What should you learn during professional instruction before you go out on your own to continue to carefully build experience? This subsequent phase should be with a more experienced kiteboarding buddy by the way. Some ideas follow. Not all instructors cover all these points in these early days as kiteboarding instruction is still fairly new. Still, you would do well to try to find a program that properly addresses the following:

Knowledge Development

1. How kites, boards and gear work.
2. Insight into the wind, wind window and influences on kite performance and power.
3. What to look for in good launch, riding and landing areas vs. poor areas.
4. What is a safety buffer (DISTANCE), and the critical importance of
maintaining one.
5. Wind, weather & water environment planning and monitoring. What causes unstable weather/wind and associated hazards, how to predict it and what to watch out for. What are suitable conditions and variables for riding, what conditions should you avoid and what to look for.
6. Minimum kiteboarder physical capabilities such as swimming, fitness, warm up and warm down procedures.
7. Kiting rules of the road, kiting responsibility & protecting access to kite.
8. Gear selection (kite, line, board, wetsuit/drysuit, etc.), for predicted
conditions and kiteboarding safety gear (helmets, impact vests, gloves, knives, signalling devices, etc.).
9. Standard voice and hand signals e.g. launch, landing, rescue, etc..
10. Kiteboarding hazards (lofting, dragging, etc., emergency scenarios, avoidance and management.
11. What skills to work on following the initial training, tips for achieving them and precautions.

Some of this information may be conveyed while working with the instructor on the beach or in the water, during lectures or in hand outs. If your instructor doesn’t cover all this information you would do well to research these topics on your own. Quite a lot of information appears at:
http://fksa.org/ and http://www.kitesurfingschool.org/

Skill Development

1. Gear setup & putting it away, preflighting, basic preventative maintenance.
2. Launching and landing unhooked and launch angle selection for conditions.
3. Capable stable kite flight under a variety of conditions both unhooked and hooked in.
4. Ability to vary and maintain constant kite power through kite positioning and sinusoiding.
5. Kite safety (emergency depower), activation in repeated simulated emergencies and rearming including an overview of current safety systems.
6. Harness and trim strap use.
7. Solo and assisted kite launching and landing.
8. Body dragging upwind with and without a board from point to point.
9. Self rescue techniques including using the kite as a sail to return to shore and securing the kite and lines and swimming into shore.
10. Ability to relaunch kite from water.
11. Beach starting and rudiments of water starting on a board.
12. Tips on how to ride upwind.

Here are some things to compare when shopping for and selecting a kiteboarding instructor or school. No all instruction is equal and it is your interest to find the best training available. Bottom line, don’t take things for granted, do your homework and get the most out of your kiteboarding training.

1. Are they certified instructors by a recognized training organization? (such as PASA ,IKO, Real, FFVL, VDWS)
2. How long have they been professionally teaching kiteboarding?
3. What is their instructor to student teaching ratio?
4. What are his lesson plan, anticipated skill progression and time requirements for you considering your related experience, physical condition and predicted wind/conditions?
5. Is a primary goal training self-sufficient kiteboarders.
6. Is the training area sufficiently large, uncrowded and away from hard objects?
7. Does he have liability insurance and is the business registered?
8. Does he use a chase water craft (boat, wave runner, kayak) and radio communications?
9. Try to schedule your lessons when conditions are appropriate for learning, e.g. 12 to 18 kts., side to side onshore.
10. Do you communicate well and comfortably with the instructor?
11. Watch a class. What did they accomplish, did it appear to be well organized and effective what do the students think about the experience?
12. Has the instructor had student injuries, if so how and what are their emergency procedures?
13. Is new, well maintained equipment used with current safety systems along
with helmets and impact vests?
14. Can he offer any discounts on purchase of kiteboarding gear?
14. Is he affiliated with the local kiteboarding association?
15. Cost is an important consideration but not THE most important
consideration. Proper effective instruction can save you a lot of time,
frustration and possibly injury/damaged equipment in learning kiteboarding.

Quality instruction is a good thing. If you are interested in kiteboarding take the intelligent path and hookup with a Professional kiteboarding instructor for adequate, quality training. The experience should speed you on your way to safer enjoyment of this excellent sport.

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Re: Why are Kite Lessons so expensive in the US???

Postby Bille » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:48 pm

RickI wrote: ...
Cheaping out on something that can clean your clock, cost a bunch of other guys access is a bad idea. Almost as bad as assuming that money will automatically buy you good instruction. You have to use your head in short and shop carefully for quality instruction.
...
Now That was a polite way of putting it !! :thumb:

But remember that lousy instruction could also cost you your life
as well.

A new guy once asked me to launch him at 6-mile.
So i stretched out his lines a bit above his trim strap
and asked him to grab his QR , ( with out looking)
then tell me which way he was gonna pull it if shit hit the fan ; and he
Didn't Know !!!

I refused to launch him -------------------------------sorry. :(

Bille


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