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Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

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Da Yoda
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Da Yoda » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:44 pm

NorCalNomad wrote:Every damn fin thread needs this link posted because 1/2 the people here who comment on fins don't know what they're talking about.

https://futuresfins.com/en-us/fin-school/foil
+1
NCM is correct. I've now counted several posts indicating this fact. Why can't anyone here understand this?

So far these fins have been recommended and yet not one of them are ideal for the Tomo boards because they all have Flat Foils...
Aliexpress/Amazon - G3 or G5
Futures - Alpha F4 / Mulcoy / Pyzel
Creatures - Nat Young

IFT/Vector foiled fins make Tomo boards come to life!!! The hangup here is everyone is so focused on stiff fins, but almost all of the stiff fins available today are spec'ed with flat foils.
Currently the stiffest fins with an inside foil (V2) are these Futures models...
Lost Grom = 7.2
Stretch = 7.2
Stamps = 7.4
Roberts Lg = 7.9
(lower # = stiffer)

Da Yoda
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Da Yoda » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:51 pm

hrdude wrote:Interesting, very different opinions with the Vader. I'm usually a quad guy. However, I found a quad setup to be draggy with this board, just didn't feel right. I then switched to a medium size thruster fin set and the board came alive. Faster and looser for me.
What size, shape (model), and flex were the quad fins?
Did they have an inside foil or were they flat?

From all of my testing, I've concluded that flat foil front fins make these boards noticeably "draggy" regardless if running a thruster or a quad set-up.

knotwindy
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby knotwindy » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:16 pm

+1
I have a 4'10" Vader and much prefer it as a thruster as well, go figure. Gotta go with what feels best after trying a bunch of different setups.
And over time the way you ride can change and you have to try them all again, tough life!

Megabear
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Megabear » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:08 am

So whats better a stiffer flat foiled fin, or the softer inside foil (V2)?

Onda
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Onda » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:21 am

I´ve ridden my 5.3 Vader quite a bit now.
First, I used the Futures Jordy M (thruster).
Later I tried the Futures F4 thermotech as thrusters and quads (5 fin set).
Since some months I´m now using the Futures Roberts M (5 fin set) ONLY as quads.
With the Roberts quads the Vaders feels best in all regards: Faster, earlier planning, much more lively, tightest turning with absolute ease. And extreme upwind ability (very important in strong downwind currents!). With the Roberts I´ve ridden with ridiculously low kite pull in very low winds, because the board floats so early.
My 2nd choice are the Jordies for bigger waves. The Board feels significantly more draggy, slower, sluggish. But it is more stable at high speeds and gets much less lively (which is what you´re looking for in larger waves).
The F4 thermotechs are OK as quads, but forget about them as thrusters (my opinion), too much flex, too soft.
The Roberts fins (V2 foil!) have been a real revelation to me :D
I´d say Futures´ ride number really is a good orientation parameter. If you like a very responsive, lively, fast ride, go for high ride numbers (7-10). If you prefer a more stable ride with strong tracking from the fins, wider arcs / bottom turns and less board speed, choose a lower ride number (5 to 1).

knotwindy
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby knotwindy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:29 am

For me the best is
Thruster, stiffer fin, inside foil, flexy tip
Even though flex doesn't exist...
Just like the way it feels overall, although I am less concerned about upwind at the expense of feel on the wave. Even with the thruster setup it turns silly fast and goes upwind better than most so on the face is where it matters and where it shines. No need to give up the feel on the face for the minor benefit of the quad speed and upwind for me.

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CaptainArgh
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby CaptainArgh » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:54 am

Man this is getting confusing. I know everybody will have different tastes. Be nice if Tomo had some recommendations - "For kitesurfing, the modern planning hull design will work best with X fins. Adjust size for rider weight and conditions." I guess that is too much to ask.

I bought the FCS II Al Merrick Performance Core 5 Fin set in Medium. I hope they do the trick.

Megabear
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Megabear » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:05 am

Da Yoda wrote:
NorCalNomad wrote:Every damn fin thread needs this link posted because 1/2 the people here who comment on fins don't know what they're talking about.

https://futuresfins.com/en-us/fin-school/foil
+1
NCM is correct. I've now counted several posts indicating this fact. Why can't anyone here understand this?

So far these fins have been recommended and yet not one of them are ideal for the Tomo boards because they all have Flat Foils...
Aliexpress/Amazon - G3 or G5
Futures - Alpha F4 / Mulcoy / Pyzel
Creatures - Nat Young

IFT/Vector foiled fins make Tomo boards come to life!!! The hangup here is everyone is so focused on stiff fins, but almost all of the stiff fins available today are spec'ed with flat foils.
Currently the stiffest fins with an inside foil (V2) are these Futures models...
Lost Grom = 7.2
Stretch = 7.2
Stamps = 7.4
Roberts Lg = 7.9
(lower # = stiffer)
Why did you leave out the roberts medium ?

magic%20Ed
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby magic%20Ed » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:35 pm

Da Yoda wrote:
NorCalNomad wrote:Every damn fin thread needs this link posted because 1/2 the people here who comment on fins don't know what they're talking about.

https://futuresfins.com/en-us/fin-school/foil
+1
NCM is correct. I've now counted several posts indicating this fact. Why can't anyone here understand this?

So far these fins have been recommended and yet not one of them are ideal for the Tomo boards because they all have Flat Foils...
Aliexpress/Amazon - G3 or G5
Futures - Alpha F4 / Mulcoy / Pyzel
Creatures - Nat Young

IFT/Vector foiled fins make Tomo boards come to life!!! The hangup here is everyone is so focused on stiff fins, but almost all of the stiff fins available today are spec'ed with flat foils.
Currently the stiffest fins with an inside foil (V2) are these Futures models...
Lost Grom = 7.2
Stretch = 7.2
Stamps = 7.4
Roberts Lg = 7.9
(lower # = stiffer)
Funny, foils tend to give more sideways and upways (depending on the angle of the fin) force, which make surfboard tails stay out of the water more easily and giving you a bit more turning force, but with speed, the foils have a tendency to cause drag. With kitesurfing you already have speed, plenty of speed. So in my opinion, foils are a no go. You want to have a fast (speed) and a easy turning tomo? Get a fin with no inner foil, low rake (straight) and not to much width (or length). Compare it with airplanes: a slow, big plane has wide wings with foils (even increasing the foil when landing), fast, easy turning airplanes have short wings with litle or no foil. But ofcourse, personal preference and probably also technique will make a big difference.

Specifically Tomo: Vanguard & Vader: small thruster setup. Evo: medium quad setup. No foils.

Alysum
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Re: Firewire Vader, Fins recommendations

Postby Alysum » Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:26 am

So what's the verdict on affordable fins for a Vader ? I'm getting my 5"1 January !

Has anyone ordered from aliexpress ? The free shopping says it takes 20 days is that so ?


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