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foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

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hannhann00
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foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby hannhann00 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:19 pm

hi I'm new to kiting and have only done a few lessons some time back., although I hope to get back on the water soon. I was recently watching TV and saw some amazing footage of kite racing using foil kites and hydrofoil boards.

I've done a bit of a search but couldn't find any recent relevant info (and i don't mean to start a foil board debate as from what i read it seems to be a slightly heated topic). However I have two main questions-

1) are Foil racing kites "better/ faster" than the inflatable 'racing kites' for racing purposes? what are the main pros and cons (i assume the biggest drawback being if you crashed a foil kite in the water you can't re-launch)? Are there many other sectors of kiting where a foil kite brings much advantage over a traditional kite with the inflatable leading edge or are they mainly only used for racing?

2) are hydrofoil boards faster over a race course than those big racing boards i've seen previously (and have hydrofoil boards replaced the tradtional racing boards in the kite racing scene)?

3) In a open fight race with the same rider what would win or be the most common preference.



thanks :)

cosmo
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby cosmo » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:54 pm

I think does not exist any inflatable racing kite now. So think about wich is faster.
For racing: high AR foil kite. Diablos, R1v2, Elf7, FS Sonic2.
...but better? yes, they are better for racing, jumping high and go up wind.

Foilboards goes faster, go upwind better and you dont burn you legs like in a raceboard.
They replace the raceboards and dont see anyone make it any more.

Obviously almost any carbon foil beat a raceboard.

evan
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby evan » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:22 pm

There is a reason tubes and raceboards are not used anymore ;)

Foil racekites are also excellent Freeride/hangtime/Light wind material on a twintip.

grigorib
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby grigorib » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:17 pm

1) foil racing kites are more efficient and more demanding comparing to inflatables
2) hydrofoils rock upwind and go fast. Super efficient and they have not only put the directional raceboards to museum shelves but also tend to invade lightwind and freeride segments for flying/hovering sensation they feature.

If you're not heading to dominate the scene but in the sport for its ease and simplicity, I'd recommmend a light inflatable kite and a lower aspect hydrofoil to get you addicted and fall in love with this setup.

I mean you don't need a F1 bolid to go onto local race track to have fun.

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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby Pump me up » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:44 pm

Hi Hann - thanks for asking. I've posted the answers to your questions below :cheers:
hannhann00 wrote:1) are Foil racing kites "better/ faster" than the inflatable 'racing kites' for racing purposes? what are the main pros and cons (i assume the biggest drawback being if you crashed a foil kite in the water you can't re-launch)? Are there many other sectors of kiting where a foil kite brings much advantage over a traditional kite with the inflatable leading edge or are they mainly only used for racing?
Ram air kites are inferior to inflatables. They track upwind ok on windward legs, but are plagued by instability (collapsing etc) on downwind legs.

Their useable LIFESPAN for racing is actually quite SHORT. Bridle and canopy stretching means most ram air kites are uncompetitive after about 20 h of use. Sponsored pro's can afford to upgrade their gear regularly, but for average Joes, ram air kites are a poor investment.

Ram air relaunch and safety problems have caused such issues in races that BANNING ram airs was recently considered. Ram airs are significantly less safe compared to inflatables.

No - apart from windward legs in racing, ram airs are INFERIOR compared to inflatables in ALL other aspect of kiting. I'll post detailed reasons soon.


Pumpy :pump:

socommk23
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby socommk23 » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:47 pm

Pump me up wrote:Hi Hann - thanks for asking. I've posted the answers to your questions below :cheers:
hannhann00 wrote:1) are Foil racing kites "better/ faster" than the inflatable 'racing kites' for racing purposes? what are the main pros and cons (i assume the biggest drawback being if you crashed a foil kite in the water you can't re-launch)? Are there many other sectors of kiting where a foil kite brings much advantage over a traditional kite with the inflatable leading edge or are they mainly only used for racing?
Ram air kites are inferior to inflatables. They track upwind ok on windward legs, but are plagued by instability (collapsing etc) on downwind legs.

Their useable LIFESPAN for racing is actually quite SHORT. Bridle and canopy stretching means most ram air kites are uncompetitive after about 20 h of use. Sponsored pro's can afford to upgrade their gear regularly, but for average Joes, ram air kites are a poor investment.

Ram air relaunch and safety problems have caused such issues in races that BANNING ram airs was recently considered. Ram airs are significantly less safe compared to inflatables.

No - apart from windward legs in racing, ram airs are INFERIOR compared to inflatables in ALL other aspect of kiting. I'll post detailed reasons soon.


Pumpy :pump:

Hann

Learn to ignore ^^^^^^ him.

evan
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby evan » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:50 pm

Watch this year's hydrofoil protour races where they do 30kn+ on 160deg downwind angles. They get sucked indeed, downwind :)

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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby Jzh_perth » Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:33 am

Nico Parlier actually hit 41 knots downwind in Rockingham on his Ozone r1v2. Modern race foils relaunch just fine - ignore lumpy - and they generate so much apparent wind when heading deep downwind they are (relatively) kiting upwind. Crazy. Biggest disadvantage is to your wallet $$$$

Flysurfer bridles are designed to be adjustable to compensate for bridle shrinkage and stretching over time. Core to their product strategy is to build kites that give great value and performance over their life span, which is more like 3-5 years. Ignore the 20 hour comment above.

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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby grigorib » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:05 am

Yes, on foil kites you need to tune bridles. Yes due to lighter/thinner material porosity is a bitch after hundred+ hours. Yes, foils might collapse in turbulent, gusty, inland wind. Yes, they could be harder to relaunch, especially high aspect wings (the HA inflatables relaunch like crap too) Yes, it's a rape to a foil kite to drift launch/land it when there's no nice wide area to launch. Yes, you might need a fifth line to self-land foils safely. Yes, you give up floaties, safe chicken loops, quick release - just to get simple/cleaner/lighter setup.

But

If you want to keep winning the races you better spend lotta time working on whatever you race. Then you need to do what you gotta do and focus on winning at any cost.
But people have different priorities in life. Some like to win, some want to enjoy riding.

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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby Pump me up » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:28 am

grigorib wrote:Yes, on foil kites you need to tune bridles. Yes due to lighter/thinner material porosity is a bitch after hundred+ hours. Yes, foils might collapse in turbulent, gusty, inland wind. Yes, they could be harder to relaunch, especially high aspect wings. Yes, it's a rape to a foil kite to drift launch/land it when there's no nice wide area to launch. Yes, you might need a fifth line to self-land foils safely. Yes, you give up floaties, safe chicken loops, quick release.
ALL CORRECT, unfortunately. Which is why ram airs are NOT suitable for 99.9% of kitesurfers. :cheers:
:pump:
Last edited by Pump me up on Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.


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