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foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

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socommk23
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Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby socommk23 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:37 pm

ShaveTheWhales wrote:
socommk23 wrote:
ShaveTheWhales wrote:So if the F-one Bandit holds the world water speed record ' why bother argueing.. :cool2:

Because the pilot obviously lacks the skill to fly a foil kite that would be faster.
Well that just makes Alex Caizergues that fastest kiter on the planet over foils and inflatables...

Hes 'Put Up'... so the rest will have to Shut Up...
Until they beat him :cool2:

Keyboard warriors Ohhh my ....
fastest kiter on the planet????
You do realise there is more to kiting than on the water right?
World record in a buggy stands at 84mph i believe. And ive done 61.6mph and plenty of people faster than me.
I guess now your thinking "fastest kiter on water" right?

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ShaveTheWhales
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:27 pm

Soccomk

Keep off the drugs :cool2:

The title of this thread is...
foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Your 61.6mph on a raceboard or foil board on Land - is truly Legendary ..

Try the Buggy threads :thumb:

FrederikS
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby FrederikS » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:05 am

The kites used for the speed records were custom built F-Ones which are similar to the new Furtive kites AFAIK. Going broad reach in a small channel in 45 knots plus wind without waves in off shore conditions is the main reason everyone is on tube kites. Broad reach on a foil in high winds it is probably still easier to get good speed on a tube, but it is doable with a foil. Parlier did 40 knots going downwind towards a mark in the last hydrofoil race of the season which is insane. Of course that was not a sustained speed but still mightily impressive.

socommk23
Frequent Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby socommk23 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:22 am

ShaveTheWhales wrote:Soccomk

Keep off the drugs :cool2:

The title of this thread is...
foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Your 61.6mph on a raceboard or foil board on Land - is truly Legendary ..

Try the Buggy threads :thumb:
My point being these speeds are done using foil kites.

grigorib
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Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Ogden Dunes, IN; Michigan City, IN; South Haven, MI; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 8m/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m/15m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Best Kahoona 11.5m, Peter Lynn ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift, Slingshot Ghost Whisper, Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako, MBS Comp 95x
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby grigorib » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:03 pm

socommk23 wrote:fastest kiter on the planet????
World record in a buggy stands at 84mph i believe. And ive done 61.6mph and plenty of people faster than me.
I guess now your thinking "fastest kiter on water" right?
I know you were responding to "fastest" claim but overall trolling discussion was about beginner wanting to know more about water racing world where hydrofoils and foil kites pushed out absolutely any other type of gear (for now).
Last weekend I've got my hands on a 2009 kiting magazine which had race photo where _everyone_ was on formula directional board and ~7 struts inflatables. Who could have guessed that things are going to change that much.

Now it's time to bring up fixed bridle kites on handles and their superior power for kite size!
Eat it! (Both inflatables' and foil riders)

socommk23
Frequent Poster
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby socommk23 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:31 pm

grigorib wrote:
socommk23 wrote:fastest kiter on the planet????
World record in a buggy stands at 84mph i believe. And ive done 61.6mph and plenty of people faster than me.
I guess now your thinking "fastest kiter on water" right?
I know you were responding to "fastest" claim but overall trolling discussion was about beginner wanting to know more about water racing world where hydrofoils and foil kites pushed out absolutely any other type of gear (for now).
Last weekend I've got my hands on a 2009 kiting magazine which had race photo where _everyone_ was on formula directional board and ~7 struts inflatables. Who could have guessed that things are going to change that much.

Now it's time to bring up fixed bridle kites on handles and their superior power for kite size!
Eat it! (Both inflatables' and foil riders)
Still got my fb kites ;)

kitexpert
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Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby kitexpert » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:49 pm

grigorib wrote:Now it's time to bring up fixed bridle kites on handles and their superior power for kite size! Eat it! (Both inflatables' and foil riders)
They are foil kites. Fixing the bridle (AoA) allows to use more cambered airfoil with higher L/D or at least higher L. Depower is lost, kite sits deeper in the window and pulls hard. I remember some not so nice experiences with these in the early years of kiting... Handles have one benefit but so many drawbacks it is best to forget them.

Because speed records need a lot of wind safety and control are very important. That is why small LEI's are usually used and found on top of the lists. As a product fixed AoA foils are not very interesting kites - if not obsolete, so there isn't much development there.

It is interesting to see if race foil kites will be fastest after this season GSR.

mikelet
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Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:11 pm

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby mikelet » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:24 pm

Ozone Edge 17m + Sector 60 , more than enough for LW ,if you're not into races.
In this combo i can keep on with mates on foilboards and 12m kites.
Even riding the most efficient boards All LEI kites have the same low end limit ,it's an structural limit, defined by weight ,once you stop or fail a jibe the moment your board becomes inneficient ,your LEI kite will hinderburg.....
A way of widening this limit is to fly a more efficient kite , a foil kite ...But there are tradeoffs as they are specifically purpose designed products...
On a Big LEI you can change board if wind picks up a bit ,and still having fun on a Skim, TT, Surfboard,Mutant, Alaia...Etc...
So for me it's a no sense to have a race foil kite if not using It with a foilboard
Regarding Raceboards,if not a FreeRace with medium sized fins, i find them also harsh and tiring to ride....

grigorib
Frequent Poster
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Ogden Dunes, IN; Michigan City, IN; South Haven, MI; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 8m/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m/15m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Best Kahoona 11.5m, Peter Lynn ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift, Slingshot Ghost Whisper, Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako, MBS Comp 95x
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby grigorib » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:16 am

kitexpert wrote:...Because speed records need a lot of wind safety and control are very important....
Whoa, you gotta stop right there....races and records are about winning, not about safety or general health. That's why there's no proper quick release, no floaties on race bars. That's why nobody bothers if a foil is not going to relaunch or a rider is going go get impaled by pointy hydrofoil fuselage. In return for fractures, concussions, lost ACLs and drownings there's fame and victory. jk :)

I mean, for general kiting public safety is a big deal but once competition starts - it's not going to be the safest gear which will bring the prize.

Trolling-wise - the discussion about FB vs. depower kites was so hot few years ago, or "C" kites vs. bow :)
So much stuff became obsolete naturally...

grigorib
Frequent Poster
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Ogden Dunes, IN; Michigan City, IN; South Haven, MI; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 8m/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m/15m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Best Kahoona 11.5m, Peter Lynn ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift, Slingshot Ghost Whisper, Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako, MBS Comp 95x
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: foil kites vs inflatable racing kites for racing + foil boards vs race boards?

Postby grigorib » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:26 am

mikelet wrote:...Even riding the most efficient boards All LEI kites have the same low end limit ,it's an structural limit, defined by weight ,once you stop or fail a jibe the moment your board becomes inneficient ,your LEI kite will hinderburg.....
A way of widening this limit is to fly a more efficient kite , a foil kite ...But there are tradeoffs as they are specifically purpose designed products...
On a Big LEI you can change board if wind picks up a bit ,and still having fun on a Skim, TT, Surfboard,Mutant, Alaia...Etc...
So for me it's a no sense to have a race foil kite if not using It with a foilboard
Regarding Raceboards,if not a FreeRace with medium sized fins, i find them also harsh and tiring to ride....
The gap is closing though. LEI became lighter and have more structure to keep wing shape falling down - giving you a chance to use that speed for a downloop and back you go. You put large LEI on 40m lines and it's going to give you enough opportunity to move the kite around and fly it so it doesn't fall while a foil is going to suck in looping it and if a foil folds on you or bowties midair - that's going to suck so much more. For a regular rider those are significant factors.
As you said - trade offs.


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