Dan, well done. You are a good salesman.
Again, thanks for your explanation, but I think there are some flaws.
Dan-at-North wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 pm
North as a brand (and I personally) have for 10+ years pushed the 5th line as the only reliable safety. We've also pushed the performance advantages of the loaded 5th line (while admitting it's shortcomings) and touted the positive bar feedback 'feel' of a loaded 5th line (though this is inherently subjective). We literally own the patent on 5-lines.
During that time period we've seen countless claims of "as good as a 5th line" (Recon anyone? How about Recon 2?) come and go. Early on we saw death spirals from single front- or back-line safeties. Which is why we started with a double-front-line safety, which we claimed was as good as any 4-line safety but still not as good as a 5th. Bridles/designs improved to account for single-point loading and we (along with other brands) developed perfectly adequate single-front-line safety systems that actually do rival the 5th line for safety/ease of use.
Yeah, I remember 2005 when first came the 5th line. It was day and night in kites relaunching from water and security during ejection.
Also remember Cabrinha Recon System, a totally disaster. Those plastic balls, hot relaunching and ocassional deathloops when the Recon got stucked. At least one person died in the world because of that system.
In 2006 came the "fantastic" train of bows. Later, with this new "bow arced" leading edge , 5th line was not necessary to relaunch kites from water. In 2006 North didnt get in that train of bows, and in 2007 you change the shape of Rhinos and it appeared for first time the Rebel. But both kites lacked of bridles, they sustained the more opened leading edge with the loaded 5th line. I guess a matter of patents. Fifth belongs to North.
In those years, Rebel still not a "Rebel" and i bought a Switchblade. My surprise was when I normally eject the SW. Some kind of death spyrals, a totally mess.
We were only two kiteboarding in my spot and usually ended my session by ejecting the kite. I added not loaded 5th line to my SW.
I Changed my kites for Rhino and Evo 2008. North kites came first that year with bridles and pulleys. Optional 4-5th line flying. Good kite that Rhino, the Evo was not that good. During ejection, in 4 lines, the Evo fell from the sky, but when in the water, lot of power still on the kite.
Dan-at-North wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 pm
As we've seen 4-line safeties improve we started trying to make a performance freeride kite that would be 4-line compatible. I think we started the Fuse project in 2009 with this goal specifically in mind. The problem was simply that we couldn't get a kite to work as well as the Rebel. Ken can certainly shine more light on this, but from what I can tell, we based the shape of the Fuse on the shape of the Rebel, and though the Fuse was a cult classic, there were a lot of drawbacks to that shape that certainly did not fit the classic Rebel "performance freeride" bill.
Four lines safeties improved very much in 2009. Again, 2009. Cabrinha came with IDS and when ejected in one front line, the kite fell from sky and no power remaining during in the water, almost like a 5th line system.
So, 5th line was not needed to relaunch kites from water, no 5th line needed to depower very well an ejected kite without death spyrals and remaining power. So ¿Why did North, a major brand, did sustain the 5th line, an unnecessary and unknown system for new generation of kiters? ¿A matter of patents?
The answer came a few years later, when i owned a 10m Rebel 2011 and 9m Fuse 2012.
When ejected in 4 lines, the Fuse had a lot of remaining power. The Rebel lacked of remaining power but, ocassionally, as we all know, wraps the 5th in the canopy.
I flew side by side the 5th line Rebel 10m with the 4 line Fuse 9m.
Rebel was faster, it turned sustained more in the center of the leading edge, and the Fuse sustained more in the tips. With one meter more of fabric, the Rebel had upper windrange and a shorter bar stroke.
The Fuse felt good, but the feeling of the Rebel was Unique.
So, there we were. If North sustained the loaded 5th line was not for security but for that unique feeling.
Dan-at-North wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 pm
Last Fall he announced that he had a winning (sorry) design and he invited a very skeptical team out to test it. The entire team (myself included at a later date) had to admit that flying what has become the 2018 Rebel back-to-back with the 2017 Rebel (which was a very good vintage), the 2018 Rebel simply performed better in just about every way. It jumped bigger, was faster through the window, went upwind better, had better sheet-and-go power, turned faster, turned WAY better (more natural/roundly), is more stall-resistant, more stable , etc.
If we want to continue to make the best possible performance freeride kite, we couldn't very well take this gem that could fly on both 4 and 5 lines and reject it for a kite with lower performance characteristics that could only fly on 5 lines.
So, 2017, Ken Winner "discovers" that flatening the profile and adding 6 attachment points bridling in the leading edge -the central points very near where before was attached the 5th line- he would find the "GEM" that jumped bigger, was faster through the window, went upwind better, had better sheet-and-go power, turned faster, turned WAY better (more natural/roundly), is more stall-resistant, more stable. and outperformed the previous Rebel.
The only thing lost in this equation is the unique feeling of the loaded 5th line, that made unique the Rebel.
As you said
Dan-at-North wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 pm
Does it have the classic 'feel' of a loaded 5th line kite? Not quite. Is that a sacrifice? Depending on your personal preference, possibly.
But who cares... The older Rebels owners? A "few of hard die 5th line fanatics" cannot be compared to hundreds of newbies that wanted to approach the Rebel and they were frightened of unrolling five lines in the sand.
There are a lots of kites like the 2018 Rebel. Core XR, for example. Very good kite. Triple risptop. The ugly of Core models is that only come in black and white.
...i've never bothered taking lines on/off...my 5 sizes Rebels have each their own ideal Trust bar line lengths / bar widths & tuning
