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another back line trim bar

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:06 pm
by juandesooka
A third entrant into the market with trim adjustment on the bar. Assume it is licensed from the patent holder, so maybe we'll be seeing more like this. I really like the idea of this but the extra $ not worth it to me. (536 euros)

BWS BenWilsonSurf: Meet our new Blue Chip Bar, designed by R3-Designs. Our new bar is a whole new dimension in using a control bar for riding the kite. Featuring a back line kite trimming system to replace current front line trimming systems, and a single body injection molded structure, this new bar concept opens up ways for enhanced safety and kite landing, as well as improved ergonomics and accuracy for trimming the kite.
bwsbar.jpg

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:48 pm
by matth
Definitely comes out of the same factory as Ocean Rodeos bar... :nono:

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:45 pm
by Da Yoda
matth wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:48 pm
Definitely comes out of the same factory as Ocean Rodeos bar... :nono:
This isn't new! They've been sourcing from the same factory before, so it makes some sense...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2390182

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:43 pm
by Sun
I like the idea of companies sharing gear, like what Ocean Rodeo and BWS obviously have done here. On the one hand it is a good endorsement of the original design, chances are the second company to come along had a choice of product, so they probably would've picked something good. On the other hand it means the market base is larger so we will likely weed out problems faster and have more spare parts.

Just before the Best melt down they were using the North iron heart quick release. It looks like Eleveight jumped ship, I wonder if what remains of Best will pick up the click bar?

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:27 pm
by alford
Any real difference vs OR's other than color?

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:20 am
by or6
None. It was designed by the the same three designers: R3.

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:55 pm
by ORSales
alford wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:27 pm
Any real difference vs OR's other than color?
or6 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:20 am
None. It was designed by the the same three designers: R3.
This is correct, the Stick Shift was the 1st release of the R3 bar but there are / will be other brands who license the design, BWS being the first out of the gates!

FWIW, @Sun, you nailed our POV on this as well. Broadening the base helps amortize costs over a larger market segment (development costs, molding costs, etc) and it helps ensure rider safety and interoperability.

John Z, OR

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:17 am
by Hugh2
Someone please straighten me out here. When I trim my kites for overpowered conditions, I am usually taking about 6 inches out of the front lines, maybe 9inches at max. Does this system allow for 6-9 inches of additional length to be added to the rear lines? And how do you regulate that if the depowering is by bumping the "knob"?

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:08 am
by dragnfly
Is this one insanely expensive too?

Re: another back line trim bar

Posted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:28 pm
by ORSales
Hugh2 wrote:
Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:17 am
Someone please straighten me out here. When I trim my kites for overpowered conditions, I am usually taking about 6 inches out of the front lines, maybe 9inches at max. Does this system allow for 6-9 inches of additional length to be added to the rear lines? And how do you regulate that if the depowering is by bumping the "knob"?
Hugh, great question and for most 1st time users this head scratcher gets solved pretty quickly once you're on the water and using the bar.

However, to address your question, on a traditional front line trim bar when you've taken 6-9 inches of trim out, you've actually only shortened the front lines by 3-4.5 inches as the trim line is a 2:1 pulley.

The R3 winder is 1:1 and offers 8 inches (21cm) of trim line adjustment or 16 inches of traditional front line adjustment.

The bar's mechanics are (intentionally) very simple. The winder knob is held under tension and at a 45° angle to the load by a bungee. This ensures the gear is always engaged and locked. Each quarter turn rotation of the knob to add power results in the gear riding up over a tooth and then snapping back into place to again lock it's rotation. By bumping or nudging the bar, all you're doing is relieving the tension on the knob to allow the winder to unspool. Since the winder is held in place by the tension, it quickly snaps back to a locked position.

In this way, the result is that the bar de-powers 1 notch with every bump. By deliberately holding the butt of your hand against the knob or by "karate chopping" the knob to add rotational force to your nudge, you allow the winder to unspool more aggressively for rapid depower.

Here is a basic line art drawing of the gear schematic looking down its axis of rotation, note the room at the top of the drawing for the knob to bump clear of the tooth:
Screen Shot 2017-09-21 at 1.27.31 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-09-21 at 1.27.31 PM.png (18.43 KiB) Viewed 583 times
It should also be mentioned here that the back lines are held under tension, which means even with slack back lines (kite down in the surf or rigging on the beach) the bar can still be safely depowered without concern of the line spooling out inside the bar and / or tangling. Finally, if the entire system fails, the bar returns to full depower, not fully powered up as with traditional bars.

John