Rebel 2018 vs. Core XR5

[iriejohn]

Loving the trench warfare in this thread.

[Chicken-loop]

I also enjoy the immature dialogue .... name calling, tantrums and arguing over something so subjective...

BTW, Rebels pack up quicker with the deflate valve on the end... I have both the XR5 and an earlier model rebel.

[ChickenD!ken]

I guess I’ll leave something mildly constructive:

While I am in love with my XR5 quiver, I did not fall I love with the XR5 from the get go. It took a couple sessions of testing out various wing tip and bridle settings. I mostly ride with the fastest wingtip setting and medium bar pressure. But this is something completely subjective and while I enjoy several combinations depending on the conditions, I’m sure others will feel differently. Which is why it’s idiotic to make any assumptions pre-demo. Just demo the damn thing and make up your mind.

Here is the quiver I use (190cm tall, 82kg):
6m (11-20m/s):
9m (7-16m/s):
12m (6-12m/s):
19m (4-10m/s):

If you demo the XR5 you should do it both on your own bar system and on a Sensor2S bar to really make a conclusion.

With respect to the Sensor2S(+ or Pro) bars:

1.) Whenever I try out a new bar I behave like it’s my first time on the beach. Switching bars is by far the most unnerving for me and I recommend anyone regardless of skill level, to go slow. You may be well versed in tons of other gear but familiarising yourself with RQR, clam cleat, Core’s single front-line flagging or whatever, takes time. Just read the fucking manual people, you know, where it says to check your gear and dis- and reassemble BEFORE you go out. This is after the bit where you’re told that kiteboarding can kill you and you’re now a big boy on your own.

2.) Rotor QR has some compelling science to back it up. Among other things, the torque you derive from the twisting motion is always stronger than the push-away motion. That’s a fact. If it were a real liability, it would not be in it’s 3rd iteration already. Trust me. Core doesn’t give a shit about the industry trend in general. I would lose my shit completely if I was experiencing false releases and Core would be in my rear view mirror. It has not happened once. And I don’t care what YouTube evidence you randomly send me..

3.) You can move the clam cleat adjuster and adjust line length, it’s very simple. Sorry, Click bar fanatics. Backline trim is very interesting, no doubt, but f*** off with the gadgetry. The Click bar has not re-invented the wheel, just made the carriage better looking. It’s obvious.

4.) The best reason to consider the Pro bar over the others is that it is light as a feather, extremely sturdy (doesn’t feel like a plastic toy) and lines are very stiff which completely changes bar feel and steering response. For the better I might add. There are other minor details and touches I really like and I assume people will just find on their own. I do understand if people think it’s absurdly priced but hey, try your luck elsewhere. North, Ozone, Nobile, I don’t care who you pick, it’s expensive getting in and staying in this game. At least if you want to treat yourself to a crisp canopy every now and then. I speak as someone who sold off all my old shit and has saved up for nearly 6 years while riding used crap. I lost plenty of sleep over researching this purchase and I have no regrets.


I’m not a North fan and won’t be in future given their current priorities. But I have nothing bad to say about the Rebel. It’s a great kite. If you think my gushing over the XR5 is some kind of subliminal shit post about the Rebel, well, that’s your problem.

[PullStrings]

I demoed the XR5 17 LW sqm & borrowed a Nugget TT with straps wind was light at the beginning @ 8kn and after couple hours was 15-20 kn...waves 2-4ft..side side on wind..76kg
It was great !!...what an awesome wind range...still in control in the 20kn gusts....huge jumps....lots of fun...fast turning...easy kiteloop & downloop jumps...wow !!
Setting at lightest bar pressure on bridle and middle setting on wingtip...that kite was rock solid...beautiful shape/aspect ratio in flight
Rebel 2018 not available in lightwind version in size 17 or even 19 for those looking for even more low end
At end of session it was getting dark....that kite deflated very fast with huge valve...folded up that 17 wingtips to center in less than 2 minutes
Whoo hoo !!!...no dump ( dumb) valve to deal with

[ChickenD!ken]

If I had the recording equipment I’d gladly dedicate the time both on and off the water to do away with some of the complaints I hear about. Precious deflate time and all..

Alright. I’m done being a douche on North. Sorry.

..Now come at me Cabrinha Boys!

Prediction: when the million-dollar rider who has tried both, shows up on this thread, they will certainly be appreciated and despised all at once. They’ll probably have to be Swiss too.

Oh to be wanted..

[Chicken-loop]

The XR5 has to be the quickest-to-set-up inflatable I have experienced.... however it is not the quickest to pack down. There are many reasons for this beyond the size of the valve and it has to do with ability to get the air out of the kite. Tubing for the struts gets pinched, leading edge and strut material is a lot stiffer than say a Rebel and when you roll to centre you get the usual issues. When the wind is howling, the Rebel is very much the clear winner in pack down.. But all this is very much subjective.... and mostly.... it is an irrelevant first world problem....

Time for another coffee, then to the beach for another kite on a beautiful spring day... Hopefully on my XR5.

[PullStrings]

I'm sure i could fold a XR5 12 sqm from wingtips to center faster neatly folded in 3 with my lines on....
...than you can folding from wingtip to dump valve a 12 sqm Rebel not neatly in 3 with your lines on

The race is on

[Teabageppo]

I'm still yet to read any discerning comparisons about the two kites mentioned in the thread title.

The reason I would like some articulated, researched thoughts from actually flying both (whether will always be subjective) is because I very soon, will demo a quiver of X5's. It would be good to have some comparative notes. We always demo these kites with 5 riders, in 10 minutes rotations (one left on the beach) so we can have other kites to compare. All the riders are 15 years plus kiters, except the young fella' whose in his 6th year...and already nearly passing us all...grrrrrrrr

So ....two guys here are saying middle setting at the wingtips and lightest bar pressure on the front bridle...is that right?



ps If the crack about the rebel fifth line loss moaning on the rebel thread was directed at me, take another close read. I'm not the one whining and whining like a bitch...that''s the other guy.....

pps I also disagree about not noticing the year on year improvements (not that I buy kites every year but I always ride them to see). When you are a company like north with large R and D budgets and teams, they can get through a lot of prototypes and feedback within a year.

I know we all like to think kites aren't getting better, so some kind ride their shitty 2011 kites and go wow, these are just as good.

They aren't. But you gotta be good enough to notice, most aren't. So don't go bagging a year turn around, against a two year turn around...you don't know what are talking about basically. All companies are about selling gear, selling stuff regardless who they are. Business is not a romantic ideal.

But hey that's what forums are for, hence why most the really experienced guys I know never visit these places...lol. Me, I just find all your bullshit hilarious.

[ChickenD!ken]

I'm still yet to read any discerning comparisons about the two kites mentioned in the thread title.

The reason I would like some articulated, researched thoughts from actually flying both (whether will always be subjective) is because I very soon, will demo a quiver of X5's. It would be good to have some comparative notes. We always demo these kites with 5 riders, in 10 minutes rotations (one left on the beach) so we can have other kites to compare. All the riders are 15 years plus kiters, except the young fella' whose in his 6th year...and already nearly passing us all...grrrrrrrr

So ....two guys here are saying middle setting at the wingtips and lightest bar pressure on the front bridle...is that right?



ps If the crack about the rebel fifth line loss moaning on the rebel thread was directed at me, take another close read. I'm not the one whining and whining like a bitch...that''s the other guy.....

pps I also disagree about not noticing the year on year improvements (not that I buy kites every year but I always ride them to see). When you are a company like north with large R and D budgets and teams, they can get through a lot of prototypes and feedback within a year.

I know we all like to think kites aren't getting better, so some kind ride their shitty 2011 kites and go wow, these are just as good.

They aren't. But you gotta be good enough to notice, most aren't. So don't go bagging a year turn around, against a two year turn around...you don't know what are talking about basically. All companies are about selling gear, selling stuff regardless who they are. Business is not a romantic ideal.

But hey that's what forums are for, hence why most the really experienced guys I know never visit these places...lol. Me, I just find all your bullshit hilarious.

Well my friend, I think you might just be the type of critical feedback I’ve been waiting for, if you say you’re about to test the 5. And if you feel you can make a call on the XR5 vs. Rebel, I’m definitely curious to hear it. Not that I think it matters much. If you go through my posts on the XR5 you’d be forgiven for thinking I’m a mindless fanboy. I am not, and I genuinely want to hear from someone who does not like the 5. I (still) have nothing bad to say. It’s slightly unnerving and I’m not a religious person in general.

We will have to agree to disagree on the R&D and detailed feedback (which really is subjective). Is it possible to innovate year on year? Yes. Is it usually enough to compel people to upgrade? I don’t see it. With respect to Core’s general 2-year cycle, all I can say is I follow the product line closely and speak to them whenever I can (I live a 2-hour drive from HQ). I have no clue which will be the next upgrade from them or when it will hit the street. Will we get another GTS next year? A new Choice board? Both? It could be next year, the year after or not at all. Maybe they introduce something completely new. The point is, they don’t lock-in their R&D on rigid timelines like the rest of the big manufacturers, which I believe allows them to reject compromises that other manufacturers just accept willy-nilly because deadlines don’t allow for more thorough research. And I don’t doubt Core has the budget to compete either. They seem to have grown considerably in the last 5 years.

On a side note: I’d suggest bringing a comparable sized XR4 to the test of you can. The most valid comparison in my view is to test the 5 against its predecessor, not the Rebel. For me: the 5 carries over all the good stuff from the 4 (same massive wind range and superb stability) but the 5 is like a turbo-charged version of the 4. Kind of like an M3 over a 3-series BMW. Turns on a dime and delivers serious grunt/boost when you ask it. Would especially like to know what you think of this “intelligent trim” Core touts. Bridle and wingtip settings combined with a shorter bridle overall does some pretty funky stuff to the canopy shape and definitely feels like a big jump in performance.

And no, my swipe at the “moaners” was not directed at you. You were trying to help the despondent guy who (apparently) is giving North the finger now over on the other thread. But seriously, what the hell is up with that 5th line and North’s inconsistency/turnaround? It’s a bit ridiculous.

If I’m one of the two guys you refer to then no, mostly I use (on my 12m in 16-20 knots) the fastest wingtip setting and medium (what Core calls “light”) bar pressure. But as I said, this can change quite a bit depending on size and weather and I suggest you play around with it. I’m slightly worried 15 minute intervals won’t be enough for you guys, but I guess it’s better than nothing.

Anyways, looking forward to your assessment. With Core’s bar would be great too but I won’t push my luck. Hehe.

Cheers.

[lindseym]

If you tried both kites, please tell us which you prefer and why. Go!

I rode both kites and (to me) they are the best of the best. I've spent the last few weeks testing various brands to see what will be my next quiver and rode both the XR5 (and 4) along with the Rebel 2018. The verdict = 2018 Rebel is better for me. Reasons:

1) I did a backroll blind on the XR and my complete blew the QR mid-rotation due to my wrist position. It was actually pretty funny and I wish it was on video . This is easily corrected by moving the hand a bit but i'm not a fan of the twist QR.

2) I want a bar with both a stopper and a microloop. The Core bar was really nice and very solid but not having those as options is a no go for me.

3) In pure boosting power the Core won. I think the biggest boost I have ever hit was on the XR. However, there was something very unique and special about the 2018 Rebel and while on it, I had much more confidence in trying tricks I normally would not try in lit up conditions. The Core has a bit more lift but I think the Rebel has a more solid feel, stability, and better hangtime. If I was into megaloop I would definitely go with Core but my 44 year old knees do not allow. Got to settle for board-offs

4) Overall I think the Rebel has a bit more range but I could be wrong. I was absolutely shocked by what I was able to do with a 12m in light wind. The XR didn't really seem to hold up as well in light wind conditions and here in Tampa we get a ton of light wind.

Cheers all,
Lm