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Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

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tautologies
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby tautologies » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:32 pm

John Doe wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:42 pm
Question - manual says you must deflate the struts by opening the the valve on the struts? There is no workaround to make it so you can just open the main deflate valve & have the whole kite deflate? Seems like a pain.
w

Just in general, and this would hold for any kite. Leaving the valves in for a long time is not a good idea. I did that on my evo and it lead to expanded valve receptacle and a leak. It took some work to get it to shrink again.
In general I am willing to bet that the action of opening the valves does, at least, not take more time than having to massage air out through a two-way connection. Remember to use the valve velcro and rubber band to lock it down.
John Doe wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:42 pm
Got the kites. They look awesome.
YAAAAYYY!!!!! How exciting. Its such a good time to unwrap new kites!!!!! What sizes did you get? Colors? Pics?

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby tautologies » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 pm

Btw here is mine. I think its unbelievably nice colors.
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby John Doe » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:56 am

tautologies wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:32 pm
John Doe wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:42 pm
Question - manual says you must deflate the struts by opening the the valve on the struts? There is no workaround to make it so you can just open the main deflate valve & have the whole kite deflate? Seems like a pain.
w

Just in general, and this would hold for any kite. Leaving the valves in for a long time is not a good idea. I did that on my evo and it lead to expanded valve receptacle and a leak. It took some work to get it to shrink again.
In general I am willing to bet that the action of opening the valves does, at least, not take more time than having to massage air out through a two-way connection. Remember to use the valve velcro and rubber band to lock it down.

YAAAAYYY!!!!! How exciting. Its such a good time to unwrap new kites!!!!! What sizes did you get? Colors? Pics?
Better to use them for a few months & give solid review than a quick first impression :D !!!! I was lucky to spend 2 months at a pretty windy spot with waves. I bought a 6m & 8m 2017 Pivot. I had nearly 30 sessions on the 6m and about 5 on the 8m.

Yes rolling out new kites is bitchen!!!!! Yes the deflate on the struts is not a big deal. I read they have them like that to keep pressure in the struts when you turn the kite.

I totally love the kites. (I was on on 2015 Gaastra's prior so that is a factor-Im sure many 2017 kites would be an improvement. I have ridden some other brands 2017 kites). But, I really like the stability, love the smoothness, love the amount of bar pressure - it seems to be the perfect balance for riding waves. The kites seem to pull more from the harness, and that really helps to surf waves as opposed to edging. The kites go upwind great. I don't feel like I have to edge super hard to go upwind, my Gaastras required significant edging to drive upwind.

The Pivot's are super easy to launch, and even easier to relaunch. I'm really amazed by that. With the slightest bit of wind you can hot-launch them & they just flip right over. Easy launch allows me to have confidence on tight beaches. I'm a bit of a freak & like to launch wherever I can layout a 6m. Some times on rocky beaches, sometimes on small lawns etc.

The jumping ability is friggen amazing. Really incredible. I've been an avid jumper since being on Flexifoil Blades 18 years ago, so I've jumped a ton of kites. These things catch air like crazy. In the past when I jump, I would hit a wave, sheet in as hard as I could & go. With these a lot of times I hit a wave, start flying up & then I start sheeting out cuz I'm going up so friggen high that it's plenty. The kites have the same effect on landing. I can descend, and right before hitting the water sheet in & land super easy.

It's funny because when I bought them I had a little bit of buyers remorse from spending a bit of money on new kites. I could have had another season or 2 on my 2015's. Honestly, it was some of the best money I've ever spent. It's made kiting way more fun. It's seems to be a lot less strain on my arms & legs, which is super important as I've had tendonitis & some other issues. I honestly have more fun. I know I sound like some sort of spokesperson going on & on & on but it's true. Designers have really made some radical advances in the last few years. Really stoked on the kites!!!!!
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G0042933 copy.jpg

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby tautologies » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:58 am

NICE!!! I have the same experience. The jumps are awesome on the pivot. You have some real height on the pic!!!
A slight kicker and holy hell on the surfboard. Riding waves? Awesome. TT? killer. Strapless surfboard? Bring it! I've now been riding my foil with the kite and it works well.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby BudhaNl » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:21 am

Good for you and very nice that you posted your review having a lot of experience with the kite, that'll help a lot of people.

I'm still very happy with my 2017 7&9 Pivots. Now if only the wind would pick up again, it's been 2 months now without any serious opportunity to ride :roll: . I may have to get a hydrofoil and/or a 12m Boxer...

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Flyboy » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:49 pm

Interested to read this thread, even though I don't use Naish kites. My waves kites are Cabos. They are great for waves but suck for jumping - you need to be really juiced to get any height out of a jump & even then there's not much float. My assumption is that that is the price you pay for having a great wave kite. Is it really possibly to have a kite that does everything really well? The Pivot seems to be a good jumping kite (based on what Kevin Langaree does with it), it surely can't , at the same time, be as good in waves as a dedicated wave kite?

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby andylc » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:12 pm

I’m not sure any kite will be as good in waves as a dedicated wave kite, but the latest offerings are coming close. I’d say the Ozone Enduro V2 fits that bill as well. Haven’t tried the Pivot but the Enduro is also a frigging great kite.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Dirk » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:42 pm

There are dedicated wave kites out there which also jump pretty good. Naish Slash for example or Slingshot SST. I use my 7m Slash with my TT and it is a lot of fun.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Strekke » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:29 pm

I've briefly tested strapless in waves the following most recent kites:
7m Pivot vs 6m Slash
9m Slash vs 8m Enduro V2
9m Slash vs 9m Neo

My findings riding these kites back to back: true wave kites, especially the Slash, you can completely shut off and forget by sheeting out, it really lets you ride the wave with almost no pull, slack lines, and perfect drift. Both the Enduro and the Pivot can definitely be shut off to some extent, and also drift, but not as nicely as the Slash. Pivot pulled me more off the wave a few times when comparing to the Slash (the difference in size might also have played a part). Enduro is not bad in the waves for an all round kite, but still had some pull in comparison to the Slash, so not as wave-friendly as a true dedicated wave kite. Pivot and Enduro jump easier than the Slash - especially the Pivot is a piece of cake for big lofty jumps, very forgiving.

For the rest of the tests (not related to OP's Pivot question):
Slash vs. the Neo (both 9m), in 15-17 knots, both are advocated as wave kites, and both have excellent drift, but fly very differently.
- Neo definitely was more grunty and pulled harder - not necessarily a better low end, but definitely felt like an easier low end because of the grunt, giving it more of a "sheet and go" feel when compared to the Slash
- Neo has a more pivotal turn and does not pull very hard in the turn. Picks up power once it shoots out of its turn though. More edging was required for the Neo when just riding, it just felt bigger/more powerful / gruntier
- Neo allowed less "total shut down of power" compared to the Slash when sheeting out completely - it still kept pulling to some extent. Maybe we should have sized down, the Neo is a powerful kite.
- Neo had more lift for tacking, and consequently probably also jumps a bit better than the Slash (we did not test TT jumping on these 2 wave kites, so this might be speculation)
- Slash: feels lighter (a bit lighter bar pressure also) and more nimble / responded a bit quicker/faster / more direct feel
- Slash: required more movement to get going - sinusing the kite to pick up speed. Once up to speed, it drove up wind hard and fast without feeling grunty. Slash needs to be worked a bit more/flown more active than the Neo, but with the right technique has at least the same efficiency upwind as the Neo
- Slash has a wider turn and pulls more through the turn/loop
- Slash depowers completely when sheeting out, no pull - almost slack lines and just sits there, allowing for a real surfing feel
- both kites relaunch superquick

Both good wave kites but it comes down to your style/what you prefer. From my short tests, I would say the Slash requires a bit more technique & active flying to get going, but at the same time will be the kite of choice once in the wave itself because of its 0 pull and excellent drift/park&forget. Flying the Slash actively in the wave (sending it hard/looping) to get power to get past a section will be rewarding for those who know how to actively fly a kite and time their powered manoeuvres. The Neo will be easier to cruise around with, and will drift very nicely in the wave as well, but might pull a bit more once in the wave and parked, as is the grunty nature of this kite. When needing power to pass a section/escape a close out wave/do a powered manoeuvre, pulling in the bar to sheet in will probably provide ample power, while looping the kite will provide less power than expected.

All this is just of some short testing sessions by intermediate wave kiters- you always adapt and grow with a kite the more you use it, so I can't say that Slash is better than Neo in general, but I did prefer it for pure wave kiting. Will have to have some more sessions to come to a final conclusion though!

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Bartolo » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:21 am

Flyboy wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:49 pm
Interested to read this thread, even though I don't use Naish kites. My waves kites are Cabos. They are great for waves but suck for jumping - you need to be really juiced to get any height out of a jump & even then there's not much float. My assumption is that that is the price you pay for having a great wave kite. Is it really possibly to have a kite that does everything really well? The Pivot seems to be a good jumping kite (based on what Kevin Langaree does with it), it surely can't , at the same time, be as good in waves as a dedicated wave kite?
Ofcourse there is no kite that does everything well. But, you may wanna have a look at the ELeveight WS then, the 'Cabo successor'. I love this as a wave kite and it jumps absolutely well with (especially the 9m) very soft landings. Actually I jumped higher with my WS after 2 or 3 sessions than I did in a whole season with my Pivots.


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