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Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

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BudhaNl
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby BudhaNl » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:01 pm

I agree with both :D

I've ridden the Pivots in 10m 2015 and 5-7 2016 models. I wouldn't rate the 10 very highly for waveriding, not as responsive as I'd like, and drift was not great. The 5&7 were better but also lacked a little in responsiveness when lines were a little slack. I thought the 10 too slow anyway so switched over to the 9m 2017 model. In my opinion a very big difference as it drifts much better, is much quicker (more than you'd expect going down 1m2 in size), and has a very smooth response. Drift has improved, too. In the mean time I've switched out the 2016 7m for the 2017 version, again a very valuable improvement in the waves.

I really hadn't expected such a difference between the '16 and '17.

Bartolo
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Bartolo » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:17 pm

ThickAir wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:57 pm
Totally disagree w Bartolo and agree w Xray. I'm coming off Neos, probably the best wave kite in the world and Pivot is right there. If Naish's marketing department didn't tell you there was a better drifting kite, you'd never notice the difference. I've slacked the lines tons of times, bombing down a wave face, riding directly at my Pivots and never came close to getting one wet. As far as turning goes, Pivot is the best I've ever experienced - not surgy at all. You need lessons and practice, Bartolo.
Thanks for your unsollicited advice, I will take it to heart :wink:

I notice you must have really grown on your Pivots this year, cause this is what you wrote exactly one year ago (from my original thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2394714 ), which is not so much different from what I said I think :
ThickAir wrote:
Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:38 pm
I think you are going to be severely disappointed if you think the Pivots are going to jump like your Switchblades. I bought 2 Pivots last year from all the hype online and am pretty disappointed with boosting performance. They are ok for waveriding - drift fairly well, although they are not super-precise. In my opinion, they are best for practicing loops since they turn so tightly and don't generate much pull in the loop. Top end is kind of hairy on the Pivots too, although they have a great low end. You'd be better off with Neo for waves and jumping. I certainly am.

Maybe I should have kept my Pivots for another year and I would had fallen in love as well :)

Anyway different people , different experiences, you apparently dropped the Neo and last summer I was kind of frustrated using my 10m Pivot, slowly turning in low winds when I tried a 9m Neo of a friend of mine. I had a short session but at that moment I knew I was gonna switch back to a dedicated wave kite. No regrets.

Maybe I was a bit harsh on the negative sides of the Pivot but I wanted to give some substantiated arguments.

And ofcourse people can do some good waveriding with Pivots and ofcourse I don't get pulled off the board all the time , because one adapts. But that doesn't mean I feel its the best kite for the job.

Let's say riding a Pivot I can divide my attention between waves and kite like 60/40% where with my new kite (or probably any wavekite) it would be 80/20 . I prefer the latter.

And please note the OP was looking for a wave-only kite, not an allround kite.

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tautologies
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby tautologies » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:19 pm

BudhaNl wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:01 pm
I agree with both :D

I've ridden the Pivots in 10m 2015 and 5-7 2016 models. I wouldn't rate the 10 very highly for waveriding, not as responsive as I'd like, and drift was not great. The 5&7 were better but also lacked a little in responsiveness when lines were a little slack. I thought the 10 too slow anyway so switched over to the 9m 2017 model. In my opinion a very big difference as it drifts much better, is much quicker (more than you'd expect going down 1m2 in size), and has a very smooth response. Drift has improved, too. In the mean time I've switched out the 2016 7m for the 2017 version, again a very valuable improvement in the waves.

I really hadn't expected such a difference between the '16 and '17.
Interesting. My boundary is the 11 meter. I feel I can ride waves well on sizes up to 11. It probably depends on wind direction and strength, but Pivot is by far the biggest kite size I feel I have ever been able to ride well in waves. I have not tried the 11 slash tho.

John Doe
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby John Doe » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:35 pm

Bartolo wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:04 pm
John Doe wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:56 am
Would like to solicit an unbiased review from someone on the Naish Pivot. I only ride waves, all kinds of waves. Looks like the Slash is the Naish wave-kite, but my thoughts are that the Pivot will go upwind better??? It's critical for me to have a kite that goes upwind easily. I know a lot of guys love them. The price is right on the 2017's right now. I currently have 2015 Gaastra Toxic which has been a great wave kite - goes up wind, very quick, lots of low end, decent drift etc.

Opinions from non team riders, non brand affiliated kiters appreciated:)
I had the Pivots last year. Before I used a combo of Cabrinha Drifter for waves and Switchblades for jumping with TT. Because I wanted to try one allround kite instead I switched to the Pivots (2016). A number of people recommended the Pivot as a (very) good wavekite. After one season I have to say I don't agree. I liked the Pivot for TT riding. But certainly not for strapless waveriding. It's no fun when you are in gusting conditions (say more than 6 knots difference vs the avg windspeed) because the kite pulls so strong in the gusts you are being pulled of your board. In low winds the kite tends to stall a lot. And when you make a steep turn/ cutback where you have to send the kite thru the windwindow you have to always be aware of the yank the kite will give you after the turn. It is just not a very smooth turner. Drifting is so/so and you really have to keep attention on your kite so it won't fall out of the sky. Not all the time but it happens from time to time. When you had to send the kite thru the window it also didn't do so smoothly when it was not fully powered. It tends to slow down and almost stop in the middle, kind of hesitation and then bam! it increases it speed again.

Luckily I had kept the 5,5 m Drifter so when the wind was over 27 knots I could use it. Such a difference and delight!

Now, I am not meaning to say that the kite is absolutely bad, because it is not. I liked it for freeride/jumping and it may probably be more suitable when riding with straps especially regarding gusts. But my guess is that most people who advised the Pivot where stoked with Naish but didn t maybe use a real wave-kite before since Naish only launched the Slash after that. I think if you once have been riding real wave-kites you will be disappointed when switching to the Pivot. I also noticed a number of them on kiteforum are now advising the Slash themselves over the Pivot for waveriding.

I sold my Pivots and bought a set of Eleveight WS and I couldn't be more happy! Smooth, powerfull, fast steering, pivoting and drifting, never stalling, absolutely lovely.

I don't know about the Slash or it's upwind ability but I for sure wouldn't recommend the Pivot if waves are your only thing.
I think that's fine that you aren't crazy about the kite for waves. Makes sense to me. I want to hear the good and the bad.

In the past I had a Drifter, which did work well in the surf but it didn't seem to rocket upwind. The Drifter I had was older. Since myself & friends have used Gaastra Toxics, largel cuz we got deals on them. They go upwind great, which is critical where I kite. I've been largely happy with them but need new kites. The Pivots are on sale probably due to the fact that they're popular kites & there are a lot of them.

On Maui I've seen a lot of guys on them in the surf. But that's been prior to the Slash being released. I guess if the Slashs were on sale for the same price I would go with them.

Pellesurf
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Pellesurf » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:08 pm

I don´t think you'll be disappointed with Pivot. Upwind ability is really good in my 2015 and I don´t think that the ability has been worse in newer performance, rather better. The Pivot works well for waves even if more specific wave kites are even better. As Budha writes, it feels positive and exciting that the improvements of the Pivot makes it even nicer, especially for waves.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby riddim1 » Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:10 am

John Doe wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:56 am
Would like to solicit an unbiased review from someone on the Naish Pivot. I only ride waves, all kinds of waves. Looks like the Slash is the Naish wave-kite, but my thoughts are that the Pivot will go upwind better??? It's critical for me to have a kite that goes upwind easily. I know a lot of guys love them. The price is right on the 2017's right now. I currently have 2015 Gaastra Toxic which has been a great wave kite - goes up wind, very quick, lots of low end, decent drift etc.

Opinions from non team riders, non brand affiliated kiters appreciated:)
Hi John Doe,
I had the choice of a pivot or slash for my 2018 season kites. I only ride waves like yourself. I replace my kites every 2 seasons and have had pivots since 2015/16 and parks before that. I think all the opinions so far are all valid and varying. I think the question you need to ask yourself is what conditions you ride in. I ride exclusively in cross-on, wind generated swell. After testing the 2018 Slash, I found it excelled at drifting but in the conditions I ride in, drifting is not what I need most of. In cross-on, I need a light, fast turning kite with moderate drifting ability all of which I think the pivot does remarkably well. The Slash would suit cross or cross-off conditions IMO. The reality is I’ll probably never kite One-Eye :( I agree that the 2018 Pivot can be more powerful thru loops etc. but this can be controlled easily with appropriate edging on your SB or the copious amount of depower on the Torque Bar. I’ve reminded myself a few times that before the Slash in 2016/17 the Pivot was
Naish’s ‘go to’ kite for waves, and they haven’t changed much in design since mass production (quad-tex aside). The Langeree’s and Jesse seem to kite alright with them in the waves :D Good luck with your choice.

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Eduardo
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Eduardo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:54 pm

as the name implies, pivot is great at a fast pivot turn that won't generate a power surge - very useful if you are in side-on conditions where you can't park and drift anyway. it is also great for free ride, jumping, easy looping, ... the down side is I would say drifting is about average. also, while I like the 10 and smaller, I'm not a fan of the 12, it seems to need a lot of attention. Although in fairness, I'm not a fan of 12's in general.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby John Doe » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:42 pm

Got the kites. They look awesome. Question - manual says you must deflate the struts by opening the the valve on the struts? There is no workaround to make it so you can just open the main deflate valve & have the whole kite deflate? Seems like a pain.

Dirk
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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby Dirk » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:51 pm

No way around it. No pain. Super quick. And you do not need to squeeze the air out of the struts before being able to fold the kite.

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Re: Pivot Unbaised Review. Good Kite For Surf?

Postby knotwindy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:03 pm

But do remember to close them again at some point....


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