Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

What about kiting in the olympics?

Forum for kitesurfers
User avatar
Jelle_vw
Medium Poster
Posts: 95
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:53 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Weight: 76
Local Beach: Zandmotor (Netherlands)
Favorite Beaches: Slufter (Netherlands)
Style: Freeride / Oldskool
Gear: Ozone & Shinn
Brand Affiliation: None
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Jelle_vw » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:59 pm

So if it becomes Olympic it would be a shit slow competition that nobody likes. That would not attract a lot more kiters I think. So why bother?

User avatar
Cab Driver
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:12 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: Cabrinha
Brand Affiliation: Cabrinha
Location: Miami
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Cab Driver » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:31 pm

edt wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:12 am
if kiting gets into the olympics I suspect it will start as a 100cm wide race board straight out of 2001, and a one kite quiver some sort of tube kite from 2006, something like that. That's the kind of stuff they pulled for windsufers who have RS:X, 286 long board, 93 cm wide, 15.5 kg, total weight of RS:X is 19kg with a single sail, 9.5m. There you go. Sounds like fun? It's not. It's not fun to do. It's not fun to watch. It's slower than anything in the water today that ordinary windsurfers use, from large race boards to hydrofoils, it's slower than an ordinary windsurfer at slow speeds, slower at medium speeds and can't go out when it gets too windy. The entire reason for the olympics is that for windsurfing at least you have nations that build sailors by getting them started in these junior olympics things and are able to raise up a generation of sailors that love the water. I say, "Let them windsurf!" If they are at all smart they will quit windsurfing when they come of age and can afford their first kite. Other sailing classes are hit and miss, some are great some are dumb, such as the Finn, which is for large men that like to go slow it's a terrible class, there's the 470 which I actually do like quite a lot quite small dinghy, then there are the 49er and 49erFX, again which are nice, and the laser which is fun but they race their lasers in 2 or 3 knots and it's a torment to watch as the winner is whoever can pump his sail for the longest. I also like the Nacra 17 which is a beautiful foiling cat and last the already mentioned turd of a windsurfer the RS:X.

Once you get into the olympics it is like you are frozen in time. The Finn class mentioned above has been unchanged since 1952, the 470 since 1976, the 49er is relatively new first built in 2000.

If we get into the olympics be prepared to have a single 12 meter kite, a 100cm wide race board raced in 10 knot conditions on a standard olympic triangle. I would rather watch paint dry. I would rather eat paint. No olympics for kitesurfing thank you very much.

If you think they will allow modern foil kites and hydrofoils into the olympics you don't know what kind of people are at the ISAF. They hate that kind of stuff and will not allow it.
I think you are failing to recognize the point of one-design sailing. All the Olympic sailing classes of boat are outdated compared to what is on the cutting edge. However, programs in countries have to be built and supported and the equipment needs to stay the same. How do the national sailing federations support a team from junior to youth to Olympic level if the equipment is changing every three months? There are four years between Olympics and most of the time someone new to the scene will take more than one four year stint in the sport to make their push. You learn one-design equipment in and out. It becomes like walking or even breathing using that equipment. Focus turns to building skills of actual sailing rather than constantly having to learn to master a new set of equipment. Additionally, whether the boat (or kite gear) is the fastest isn't the point. The Olympics is about the best athlete, not the best equipment. The sooner people recognize this, the better. When everyone races on exactly the same equipment, no matter what the opinion of the equipment itself is, the best sailor wins - period. The rest of us that don't care about being in the Olympics for sailing or kitesurfing (that is the vast majority of us and even the vast majority of the current kite racers) can continue to ride on cutting edge equipment. In some cases, we can outspend our pals and competitors in order to beat them (such as racing has become).

PinkNorthPride
Medium Poster
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:30 pm
Local Beach: Calshot
Favorite Beaches: Le Morne, Mauritius
Silver Sands Barbados
Nyali Kenya
Dougs the Gorge
Style: Lawn Mowing
Gear: North
Brand Affiliation: North, Maybe Core next...
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby PinkNorthPride » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:10 pm

One Design sailing tends to favour a particular weight/body shape which makes the activity all the more exclusive. Trust me, for 99.999% of us Olympics bring nothing, it's a totally corrupt and corruptible monetising sport bullshit organisation. It has no place in our world.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 7316
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 530 times
Been thanked: 663 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby edt » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:06 am

Cab Driver wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:31 pm

I think you are failing to recognize the point of one-design sailing.
Some one designs are awesome (the nacra) some are shit (the olympic windsurfer, and the finn). If the IKA is able to use the same designs they use for their races, we will see some awesome and fast foil + foil combination an allowed quiver of 2 or 3 kites and an exciting race. ISAF (I guess they are "World Sailing" now) I don't trust at all. They might saddle us with the steeplechase that the juniors do now. That's worse than doing nothing at all. Most of the olympic sailing is a turd. It's unwatchable, boring and turns people off the sport.


longwhitecloud
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3676
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Style: Master Baiter. Oracle of windsport.
Gear: 2 sets of Flysurfer VMGs 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 15, 18. Foilboards ( Masts 75 90 110 125 Wings 880 950 1100 1350 1750) all with Ronix Ones attached. Soon to retire to Wingfoiling.
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby longwhitecloud » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:59 am

Lol IOC blocked it from being embedded!

Fortunately, taking the piss is not against most countries laws or it wouldn't be left on youtube still!

Dirk
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 971
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:28 am
Local Beach: St. Peter Ording
Favorite Beaches: St. Peter Ording, Tarifa, Sylt
Style: Freeride, jumping, waves, foiling
Gear: Naish Pivot, Slash, Boxer, Global, Motion, Traverse, Hero, Naish Hover, Naish Surf Foil
Location: Hamburg
Has thanked: 0
Been thanked: 91 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Dirk » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:13 am

That made my day 😂

User avatar
Cab Driver
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:12 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: Cabrinha
Brand Affiliation: Cabrinha
Location: Miami
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Cab Driver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:04 pm

PinkNorthPride wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:10 pm
One Design sailing tends to favour a particular weight/body shape which makes the activity all the more exclusive. Trust me, for 99.999% of us Olympics bring nothing, it's a totally corrupt and corruptible monetising sport bullshit organisation. It has no place in our world.
A one-design class for kitesurfing has not been selected for the Olympics. I am simply pointing out that all the other Olympic sailing classes are one-design and the IOC will likely not get buy in from the participating countries for a non-one-design kite class.

Sailing is perceived, and actually is, a privileged sport. With kitesurfing likely to be the lowest cost sailing sport, it's a big opportunity for developing countries to build programs at a much lower cost, and for family's and yacht clubs to invest into kitesurfing that otherwise would not have the resources to invest in another class of sailing, and certainly not in a prohibitively expensive open class of $3500/each kites and custom foil raceboards.

I agree that in windsurfing, the class favors a specific range of weight and even height. I know this first hand from simply being too tall and heavy in the windsurfing class way back when I participated. However, it's still better to develop a one design class as product stability is of utmost importance to have a healthy stream of juniors and youths.

User avatar
Cab Driver
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 622
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:12 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: Cabrinha
Brand Affiliation: Cabrinha
Location: Miami
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Cab Driver » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:10 pm

edt wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:06 am
Cab Driver wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:31 pm

I think you are failing to recognize the point of one-design sailing.
Some one designs are awesome (the nacra) some are shit (the olympic windsurfer, and the finn). If the IKA is able to use the same designs they use for their races, we will see some awesome and fast foil + foil combination an allowed quiver of 2 or 3 kites and an exciting race. ISAF (I guess they are "World Sailing" now) I don't trust at all. They might saddle us with the steeplechase that the juniors do now. That's worse than doing nothing at all. Most of the olympic sailing is a turd. It's unwatchable, boring and turns people off the sport.

This is mostly just your opinion. If you want to be in the Olympics, you have to play Olympic, World Sailing/ISAF, local sailing politics. Again, the Olympics is about the athlete and not the equipment. I agree that the Finn sucks, but the USA used to have a group of big boys that were f'ing fast and US Sailing used politics to keep the Finn in the Olympics. This is how it works. What difference does it make what the format of kiting would be in the Olympics anyway? It's not like I'm going to change the way I ride or anything.

Mossy 757
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:10 pm
Local Beach: First Landing State Park, Virginia Beach Oceanfront
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and board. Cabrinha Velocity 9m, Flysurfer Sonic2 11m, Ozone R1V2 15m
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 71 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Reasons why kiting should be in the Olympics:

-It would easily become the most portable sailing event by a wide margin, allowing for a list of diverse venues that would fit any host nation's waterways OR even be conducted in a man-made pool/pond setup. This makes it "6 continent accessible" as defined in the IOC goals for any new sport (i.e. it cannot inherently disadvantage developing nations).
-Modern kiting equipment offers the cheapest way to sail in the same performance category as the America's Cup, so your "dollars per knot" make it more accessible financially than any other current class program.
-The diversity of uses for the equipment and dynamic nature of the activity give it a lot more room for growth as a dynamic media event. Another way to say that is that a KBHF or any other kind of kite-powered craft has the ability to jump, do steeple chase, speed courses, slalom, whatever. A Finn is "just a sailboat."
-Kiting offers sailors the ability to select their power source (kite/hydrofoil wings) based on weather conditions and rider weight, making it possible for riders of different sizes to compete in similar conditions, reducing the "one-design-sailor" effects that plague classes like the Finn and Laser. Kite sizing also provides the ability to equalize for gender if you wanted to pursue a mixed fleet. Keep in mind that Daniela Moroz competes on the same playing field as the world's top Pro men and she's still only 16 years old. Once there are more women with years of experience and the physical training to make an Olympian, I think we'll see men start losing a LOT more.
-Making anything an Olympic medal brings in training resources, manufacturer competition, and makes the sport more attractive from a media perspective. This brings in more sponsorship money, it creates more regional events, and attracts the attention of both sexes, which is good for any sport that wishes to have a relatable public image in 2017.
-A true one-design class, or at least a box rule, would equalize the equipment in a way that allows racing to determine the superior tactician and athlete. It's cool to watch Nico, Olly, and Axel duke it out on different gear, but isn't anyone else curious what would happen if they were all racing on identical equipment? Am I the only one who wants to see a pure one-design KBHF race go down between the world's top riders? I'm sure Nico loves winning every race he enters, but there's got to be some part of him as a competitor that wants to KNOW for certain he's the most dominant sailor in the world, not just suspect as much because he's got top kites and foils.
-Sailing in the Olympics is boring, broken, slow, and political. I think a lot of people see that and think that it will pollute kiting. I think the opposite, I think inviting kiters into yacht clubs and regattas and bringing a faster, younger, more dynamic sport to the waterfront would do a lot to reinvigorate sailing, while also bridging the gap between the old guard of "yachtsman" to the new guard of high performance composite dingy pilots. It's not the job of kiters to make sailing exciting again, but it would be very easy to do and a much more direct path than trying to get a brand new sporting discipline recognized as its own unique category.

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 7316
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Michigan
Gear: ride hard, no regrets
Has thanked: 530 times
Been thanked: 663 times

Re: What about kiting in the olympics?

Postby edt » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:04 pm

The olympics should grow out of a grass roots support for a sport, so for instance, basketball, soccer, running swimming. Getting an olympic medal in one of those sports is something to be proud of. On the other hand artificial sports created just for the olympics are silly and the world wouldn't change one bit with or without them. Like olympic canoeing. Or most of the olympic sailing sports. If you want youth to get into the wind sports they can windsurf or use a laser. We don't need kiteboarding to be a youth entry sport for wind sports. There's plenty of olympic entry sports for youths already. Why does it matter? Because kiteboarding is the best sport in the world! And I want my friends who know absolutely nothing when they hear I kiteboard to be "That's awesome." And I want my boss to say "What a great sport, go ahead and take the day off." If kiteboarding gets into the olympics you will hear, "Kiteboarding is dumb, I saw in on the olympics. It's really slow and you jump these inflatable rafts. I turned it off." Kiteboarding needs all the positive press it can get, and olympics is not the answer. If you think sailors on their sloops will welcome kiteboarders with open arms into their local regetta because they see it on the olympics, lol. It's not the job of the olympics to find the best kiteboarder in the world. Leave that to the IKA and WKL, if the kiters and that organization want a one design, that's where it should be done, not the olympics. I would feel a lot different about this if "World Sailing" didn't control the IKA and I knew we could get the same sort of deal that snowboarding got for the olympics, who have some fantastic events.

If I heard that we would get an olympic megaloop competition I would be all over it. But I know what we are really going to get if we support the olympics for 2020. Just look at the RS:X and Olympic Junior kiteboarding.


Be smart. Don't support Olympic Kiteboarding.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andylc, Baidu [Spider], Baptiste_FR, bragnouff, Breze, droffats, elrizo, ham-er, headintheclouds, Leon van Bergen, Pitu, purdyd, rnelias, SolarSet, Templeam, tonester, Tony, universalflush, Wainando, Yahoo [Bot] and 376 guests