12m or 14m Slingshot Rally for 200 lbs riders ??

[Matteo V]

You must have super powers!
I'm calling bullshit on this one - 200Kg FFS!
I'd love to contribute more but there is so much confusion and misunderstanding on these latest posts, the OP must be dazed by now.
Kamikuza - you have got patience!

Good luck with your little kites, surf board and super powers, but some of us do like power and all the fun that brings

Yeah, not to poke fun at any 440lb kiters out there, but there would be a sight. Sorry for that mistype, I did not just grow a "mini-me", no wait, "full sized-me", in the last few posts. And I never said that too big a kite is no fun. Quite the opposite - too big a kite has it's place, especially in delivering fun to a beginner. But you can develop more skills to where you are no longer solely reliant on being overpowered.

And if you have any confusion, the gist of what I am saying is that you just need more kite size and more board size if you weigh more. The debate has to due with how you scale, if you even bother with the math at all, or in Kami's theory - whether sizing up one kite size is sufficient at all wind speeds for a bigger rider. The common consensus is that you just go one size bigger and try that, though experience/skill can do wonders to make a small kite work too.

I apologize if my in depth examination prompted by Kami's reply/question was not understandable to you. If you have a refutation, or some evidence for another take on the conflicting arguments, please let me know. With regards to the "super powers" you mention, my greatest aspiration would be to have the skill to write these complex arguments so you could understand them. Again, I apologize.

[badgb21]

Dude, just give it a rest will ya!
Sometimes, less is more.

Your replies don't make me want to bite - sorry.

You have bored me and I shouldn't have posted. So much of what you have posted is out of context and or just complete b***ox, I just can't be bothered to go on, I'm done.

Please just try (as a personal experiment) not to post anymore. Your silence can be the last word.
Have some respect for the OP's post.

Thanks

Over and out!

You must have super powers!
I'm calling bullshit on this one - 200Kg FFS!
I'd love to contribute more but there is so much confusion and misunderstanding on these latest posts, the OP must be dazed by now.
Kamikuza - you have got patience!

Good luck with your little kites, surf board and super powers, but some of us do like power and all the fun that brings

Yeah, not to poke fun at any 440lb kiters out there, but there would be a sight. Sorry for that mistype, I did not just grow a "mini-me", no wait, "full sized-me", in the last few posts. And I never said that too big a kite is no fun. Quite the opposite - too big a kite has it's place, especially in delivering fun to a beginner. But you can develop more skills to where you are no longer solely reliant on being overpowered.

And if you have any confusion, the gist of what I am saying is that you just need more kite size and more board size if you weigh more. The debate has to due with how you scale, if you even bother with the math at all, or in Kami's theory - whether sizing up one kite size is sufficient at all wind speeds for a bigger rider. The common consensus is that you just go one size bigger and try that, though experience/skill can do wonders to make a small kite work too.

I apologize if my in depth examination prompted by Kami's reply/question was not understandable to you. If you have a refutation, or some evidence for another take on the conflicting arguments, please let me know. With regards to the "super powers" you mention, my greatest aspiration would be to have the skill to write these complex arguments so you could understand them. Again, I apologize.

[Matteo V]

Dude, just give it a rest will ya!

No.

Sometimes, less is more.

Sometimes anything can be more. Who is making useless statements?

Your replies don't make me want to bite - sorry.

Ummmmmmmmmm?????????? Self refuting statement when contained in a reply?

So much of what you have posted is out of context and or just complete b***ox,......

I apologize, but sometimes threads take a direction no one expected. It usually happens when one question brings up another. Pretty par for many posts here on this or any forum.

.......I just can't be bothered to go on, I'm done.

Ok, I am sorry to have bothered you.

Please just try (as a personal experiment) not to post anymore. Your silence can be the last word.

No. Not addressing the argument, or challenge to my argument would do a disservice to the entire idea of a forum.

Have some respect for the OP's post.

How??? By ignoring it? This is not Facebook - which allows you to eliminate contact with those who you disagree with, or those you find not to your standards. This is a forum. All views, opinions, personalities, and evidence is allowed. Some of which, particularly if you are an emotional person, will be offensive to you. Should you have this strong of feelings, you may be looking for a Facebook type of media that allows you to insulate yourself from this type of triggering.

Thanks

Your welcome.

[Kamikuza]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

[bigtone667]

My comments are totally subjective, but....

I am 105kg (a touch heavier) and I would be going the 14m and a cruiser size board (50×150, perhaps a slingshot glide) to start with. You need to give yourself the best opportunity possible to get your flying skills down.

Once you can stay upwind and you are confortably cruising along, down size your kite or board.

Matteo comments are valid once you have figured out what you are doing.

[iriejohn]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

Wow, you have managed to say in less than 50 words what would take Matteo V over 1,000 words, that's absolutely amazing!

[Kamikuza]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

Wow, you have managed to say in less than 50 words what would take Matteo V over 1,000 words, that's absolutely amazing!

Actually, I think he's saying skill and experience completely make up for any amount of weight ("it's all psychological") and that working the kite is enjoyable, even more so than parking and riding. Which I totally disagree with

[iriejohn]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

Wow, you have managed to say in less than 50 words what would take Matteo V over 1,000 words, that's absolutely amazing!

Actually, I think he's saying skill and experience completely make up for any amount of weight ("it's all psychological") and that working the kite is enjoyable, even more so than parking and riding. Which I totally disagree with

+1

[Matteo V]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

Actually, I think he's saying skill and experience completely make up for any amount of weight ("it's all psychological") and that working the kite is enjoyable, even more so than parking and riding. Which I totally disagree with

The "it's all psychological" part I am referring to is the sad picture I see when I am out on a 13.5m at 100kgs, but there are 75kg guys with 17m kites pumped up sitting on the beach the whole day. I do not consider myself a fast learner in kitesurfing. And my referenced for this is my experience with the extremely fast learners I have taught our helped out. About 10%-15% of those I have taught barely needed one lesson. But I had to put my time in, and I did not let light winds discourage me. And that is even though I did not (as some would say) have "light wind gear".

And yes, working a smaller kite is enjoyable. When I am out on a 5.5m and 75kg riders are on an 11m, I do need to work the kite. To compare me at 100kgs on a 5.5m to most other 75kg or less kiters on a 9-11m in the same winds:

1. A 5.5m is fast and can be redirected instantly, without regard for being overpowered, compared to an 11m that you must be careful to not power up too much. Thus you get to turn instantly and hold your line with a 5.5m (which is key to maintaining speed/momentum/apparent wind), compared to a larger kite that will pull you off the face if you get it anywhere near the power zone.

2. A 5.5m is at home in back of the window looping, either looping for power or just to cross the widow when you don't want the power. On a 5.5m, this happens without the consequence of being overpowered. This allows you to NOT have to plan your moves, by having more options to utilize instantaneously which won't pull you off of the face, which in turn allows you to make use of quick breaks that are considered chaotic or unreadable.

3. This underpowered skill translates to more fun on an underpowered kite at the large sizes. Thus when everyone else is sitting on the beach with their 17m, you can be out riding - How can that not be more fun????

4. Having a range of capabilities, over powered and underpowered, gives you more time to stay out on the water having fun, while others are constantly having to change kite sizes or boards - And again! How can that not be more fun????

I'm not saying park and ride is not fun. It is how the majority of kiters kite. Just look at your local beach - I bet there is 9 our of 10 kiters just parking and riding or just boosting. Heck, I even park and ride when I get tired or sick of boosting when overpowered. But there are other ways and skills. Riding hyper efficient on a smaller kite vs fully/overpowered larger kite is just like a surfboard vs a TT, or a skimboard vs a TT, or park vs flats, or 17m with a 133cm TT vs a 14m with a door TT. There are different ways of doing things, some of which are a different skill, or a progression to a higher skill. And I know you have seen these guys out there on a smaller kite than you think you could never make work. Don't think you can't do it. It just takes some time and a willingness to pay with some sessions where you don't have fun at first. But that is how you most likely started out kiting. Put the time in for the reward in the end.

That said, for the OP, it is important for a beginner to use a bigger kite to start having fun quickly. Your future quiver will allow you to downsize for the development of higher levels of skill.

[bigtone667]

You can compensate with skill and experience to a small degree but yes, you're still at a disadvantage and no, it's not psychological. Gear is the equalizer.

Having to constantly work a kite to keep moving inevitably means there's not enough wind to have "fun", by definition.

Actually, I think he's saying skill and experience completely make up for any amount of weight ("it's all psychological") and that working the kite is enjoyable, even more so than parking and riding. Which I totally disagree with

The "it's all psychological" part I am referring to is the sad picture I see when I am out on a 13.5m at 100kgs, but there are 75kg guys with 17m kites pumped up sitting on the beach the whole day. I do not consider myself a fast learner in kitesurfing. And my referenced for this is my experience with the extremely fast learners I have taught our helped out. About 10%-15% of those I have taught barely needed one lesson. But I had to put my time in, and I did not let light winds discourage me. And that is even though I did not (as some would say) have "light wind gear".

And yes, working a smaller kite is enjoyable. When I am out on a 5.5m and 75kg riders are on an 11m, I do need to work the kite. To compare me at 100kgs on a 5.5m to most other 75kg or less kiters on a 9-11m in the same winds:

1. A 5.5m is fast and can be redirected instantly, without regard for being overpowered, compared to an 11m that you must be careful to not power up too much. Thus you get to turn instantly and hold your line with a 5.5m (which is key to maintaining speed/momentum/apparent wind), compared to a larger kite that will pull you off the face if you get it anywhere near the power zone.

2. A 5.5m is at home in back of the window looping, either looping for power or just to cross the widow when you don't want the power. On a 5.5m, this happens without the consequence of being overpowered. This allows you to NOT have to plan your moves, by having more options to utilize instantaneously which won't pull you off of the face, which in turn allows you to make use of quick breaks that are considered chaotic or unreadable.

3. This underpowered skill translates to more fun on an underpowered kite at the large sizes. Thus when everyone else is sitting on the beach with their 17m, you can be out riding - How can that not be more fun????

4. Having a range of capabilities, over powered and underpowered, gives you more time to stay out on the water having fun, while others are constantly having to change kite sizes or boards - And again! How can that not be more fun????

I'm not saying park and ride is not fun. It is how the majority of kiters kite. Just look at your local beach - I bet there is 9 our of 10 kiters just parking and riding or just boosting. Heck, I even park and ride when I get tired or sick of boosting when overpowered. But there are other ways and skills. Riding hyper efficient on a smaller kite vs fully/overpowered larger kite is just like a surfboard vs a TT, or a skimboard vs a TT, or park vs flats, or 17m with a 133cm TT vs a 14m with a door TT. There are different ways of doing things, some of which are a different skill, or a progression to a higher skill. And I know you have seen these guys out there on a smaller kite than you think you could never make work. Don't think you can't do it. It just takes some time and a willingness to pay with some sessions where you don't have fun at first. But that is how you most likely started out kiting. Put the time in for the reward in the end.

That said, for the OP, it is important for a beginner to use a bigger kite to start having fun quickly. Your future quiver will allow you to downsize for the development of higher levels of skill.

A new kiter will not appreciate any of what you are saying. It takes time to figure out that less can be more (usually a lot of time and a hydrofoil).