Foiling - only for frequent riders or occasionals as well?

[apollo4000]

I’m getting curious about foiling and seek the advice of those who have tried and liked it, and those who haven’t

1) Wanted to know whether the effort and expense would pay off for the occasional rider?
2) Is it really for those who go regularly?
3) Relative to starting with a TT, is it significantly harder?
4) any recommendations on on mast size and board type; starter packages

Cheers all

[Kykeon]

Well, there is an initial investment (effort and time I mean)
after that, I believe it is even more worth it for the occasional riders (weekend, vacation etc)
because you can kite even more days and conditions

[slowboat]

It's going to be pretty hard to learn to foil well enough that it becomes fun if you can only do it occasionally.

[toyletbowl]

I’m getting curious about foiling and seek the advice of those who have tried and liked it, and those who haven’t

1) Wanted to know whether the effort and expense would pay off for the occasional rider?
2) Is it really for those who go regularly?
3) Relative to starting with a TT, is it significantly harder?
4) any recommendations on on mast size and board type; starter packages

Cheers all

1) Wanted to know whether the effort and expense would pay off for the occasional rider?
It really depends on your situation and riding spots. It WILL open up a lot more days to ride due to winds of 10-15 now being a blast for riding. There so much you can do on those days that you otherwise could not. Staying upwind is easy. Jumping is really fun in those winds. Riding smaller kites once you get better is a blast compared to riding huge kites. Then, riding in stronger winds just becomes a fun alternate. Expense? If you get the right set up, you won't have to upgrade later and all you need is 1 set up. You don't have to buy 3,4 or 5 foils like you do kites and no need for multiple boards like you might need for twin tips or surf boards. 1 and done.

2) Is it really for those who go regularly?
Again....depends on your situation. If you want to learn, just go for it and enjoy the process. Once you learn though, you'll never ever have to work hard again to go upwind unless you want to. It's actually fun doing massive unwinders, then downwinders all in one session.

3) Relative to starting with a TT, is it significantly harder?
Learning to ride the board, yes. But, since you already know how to fly a kite well, you're already part way there. So the actual learning curve compared to a complete newbie twin tip rider and kite flyer is similar. The muscle memory of riding a twin tip will actually become a hinderance in the beginning. Having a lot of back foot pressure will work against riding the foil properly. You need a more balanced stance. It's not that hard though to overcome and then you are good to go. One side benefit though is that riding a foil will make yo a better kite flyer or remind you of things you NEED to relearn again. Having the kite in the right spot will become critical again. The foil is always tracking, so controlling your speed properly is goal #1. If you know how to properly get up on a twin tip or surf board in all wind strengths and control your speed easily while riding, you are most of the way there regarding kite control. If not, then it will be a little harder.

4) any recommendations on on mast size and board type; starter packages.
Recommendations? Yes.....I'm 100% biased (dealer), but for good reason. Slingshot absolutely nailed the Hoverglide package with a top of the line board (Dwarfcraft or Alien air) and add the short masts (Flight School) and you have a set-up that is great for learning and great for advanced riding. The Hoverglide is really stable at slow speeds. Often, other foils are also good at slow speeds when learning, but suck when you want to go faster. It's like driving on the interstate and you can only go 45 mph. The Hoverglide is also a fast foil. Not race fast, but fast enough. I can ride slow or fast with the same foil and the cost is very reasonable.
Add to it the short masts and it's one of the best set ups on the market. I get a chance to ride and test a bunch of other brands and carbon foils that are 2 times the price and I still ride my Hoverglide foil 90% of the time. Love that set up. I am a dealer, but as a dealer, I get to try a lot of products and those I like....I ride.
When Slingshot introduced the Flight School 3 mast for only $168, it was a brilliant move. The competitors at the time were selling 1 long mast for $400, so at $168 for 3 shorter masts makes it super affordable to have a great learning foil. Once you learn, you really won't need the 15" mast again, but I ride my 24" mast in shallow waters or when learning new moves and my 30" mast a lot depending on conditions. 35.5" mast comes with the Hoverglide foil as the standard length. Sorry if this is too much info, but you can guess I love foiling and the SS gear. They nailed it. BTW....I also ride twin tips and surf boards still, but I'm more selective on having the right winds and conditions for those times.

I hope this helps and good luck. Take the plunge and you'll have a blast.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

[BWD]

Keep in mind it may take 20-30 sessions to get the basics down on anything but a super short mast.

So if you only go 20 times a year, it will be a slow process.
Faster if you can dedicate a week of vacation to it and learn every day. It’s do-able but of my friends (average 8-10 years kiting experience) 4 have tried and I’m the only one doing it regularly. Some just don’t end up liking it.

Last year I did about 25 foil sessions and maybe 15 regular ones. I’m not good at foiling yet but love it, and also still love good regular style sessions.

[apollo4000]

I’m getting curious about foiling and seek the advice of those who have tried and liked it, and those who haven’t

1) Wanted to know whether the effort and expense would pay off for the occasional rider?
2) Is it really for those who go regularly?
3) Relative to starting with a TT, is it significantly harder?
4) any recommendations on on mast size and board type; starter packages

Cheers all

1) Wanted to know whether the effort and expense would pay off for the occasional rider?
It really depends on your situation and riding spots. It WILL open up a lot more days to ride due to winds of 10-15 now being a blast for riding. There so much you can do on those days that you otherwise could not. Staying upwind is easy. Jumping is really fun in those winds. Riding smaller kites once you get better is a blast compared to riding huge kites. Then, riding in stronger winds just becomes a fun alternate. Expense? If you get the right set up, you won't have to upgrade later and all you need is 1 set up. You don't have to buy 3,4 or 5 foils like you do kites and no need for multiple boards like you might need for twin tips or surf boards. 1 and done.

2) Is it really for those who go regularly?
Again....depends on your situation. If you want to learn, just go for it and enjoy the process. Once you learn though, you'll never ever have to work hard again to go upwind unless you want to. It's actually fun doing massive unwinders, then downwinders all in one session.

3) Relative to starting with a TT, is it significantly harder?
Learning to ride the board, yes. But, since you already know how to fly a kite well, you're already part way there. So the actual learning curve compared to a complete newbie twin tip rider and kite flyer is similar. The muscle memory of riding a twin tip will actually become a hinderance in the beginning. Having a lot of back foot pressure will work against riding the foil properly. You need a more balanced stance. It's not that hard though to overcome and then you are good to go. One side benefit though is that riding a foil will make yo a better kite flyer or remind you of things you NEED to relearn again. Having the kite in the right spot will become critical again. The foil is always tracking, so controlling your speed properly is goal #1. If you know how to properly get up on a twin tip or surf board in all wind strengths and control your speed easily while riding, you are most of the way there regarding kite control. If not, then it will be a little harder.

4) any recommendations on on mast size and board type; starter packages.
Recommendations? Yes.....I'm 100% biased (dealer), but for good reason. Slingshot absolutely nailed the Hoverglide package with a top of the line board (Dwarfcraft or Alien air) and add the short masts (Flight School) and you have a set-up that is great for learning and great for advanced riding. The Hoverglide is really stable at slow speeds. Often, other foils are also good at slow speeds when learning, but suck when you want to go faster. It's like driving on the interstate and you can only go 45 mph. The Hoverglide is also a fast foil. Not race fast, but fast enough. I can ride slow or fast with the same foil and the cost is very reasonable.
Add to it the short masts and it's one of the best set ups on the market. I get a chance to ride and test a bunch of other brands and carbon foils that are 2 times the price and I still ride my Hoverglide foil 90% of the time. Love that set up. I am a dealer, but as a dealer, I get to try a lot of products and those I like....I ride.
When Slingshot introduced the Flight School 3 mast for only $168, it was a brilliant move. The competitors at the time were selling 1 long mast for $400, so at $168 for 3 shorter masts makes it super affordable to have a great learning foil. Once you learn, you really won't need the 15" mast again, but I ride my 24" mast in shallow waters or when learning new moves and my 30" mast a lot depending on conditions. 35.5" mast comes with the Hoverglide foil as the standard length. Sorry if this is too much info, but you can guess I love foiling and the SS gear. They nailed it. BTW....I also ride twin tips and surf boards still, but I'm more selective on having the right winds and conditions for those times.

I hope this helps and good luck. Take the plunge and you'll have a blast.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com

Bob, you’re a star. Thank you so much for these helpful comments. You’re given me lots to ponder over.

[apollo4000]

Keep in mind it may take 20-30 sessions to get the basics down on anything but a super short mast.

So if you only go 20 times a year, it will be a slow process.
Faster if you can dedicate a week of vacation to it and learn every day. It’s do-able but of my friends (average 8-10 years kiting experience) 4 have tried and I’m the only one doing it regularly. Some just don’t end up liking it.

Last year I did about 25 foil sessions and maybe 15 regular ones. I’m not good at foiling yet but love it, and also still love good regular style sessions.

Very very useful insight. Last year I managed just under 20 sessions. Sounds like it’s going to be tricky unless I take a holiday. Many thanks. What model did you go for and would you make the same choice again?

[badgb21]

Maybe they can help over on the foiling forum............

[Eduardo]

There's a huge point missing in the discussion - foiling (and almost anything in kiting) is a ton of fun while you're learning. The comments are 20-30 sessions until you can do it well - sure - but the 20-30 sessions while you suck are also FUN! Just like you found it a huge thrill the first time you stayed upwind or jumped 1/2 a meter in the air, you will get a huge thrill the first time you foil for 30 seconds. It is up there with first kite loop - first nailed front roll, ... At 20 sessions a year, you might never be the best guy on the beach. But 5 years from now, you will either be a solid TT'er only, or a solid TTer and solid foiler. You will have more fun if you do both. Go for it...

[toyletbowl]

Eduardo.....I agree 100%. The entire process of being a newbie again was a ton of fun. Some hurdles along the way, but that's what makes it so satisfying.

Well said.

Bob
www.kiteridersllc.com