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Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

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longwhitecloud
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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed May 02, 2018 9:49 am

Just read both Bruno Leganioux and Franz Olry are going to be honorary members of IFKO that are currently aiding countries to take back complete control of kiteboarding from sailing/IKA using legal process.

The first one invented kitesurfing.. the second if you dont know who they are... well it kind of shows the problem. 2 very big names that will hold a lot of clout and trust.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby Toby » Wed May 02, 2018 11:17 am

Bruno is a supporter of IFKO since the beginning.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed May 02, 2018 12:14 pm

true.... well franz.. there is a true pioneer grass roots kiteboarder!

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby bri7 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:32 pm

Whilst I appreciate the effort Toby makes to keep us all informed I began to read the post then almost immediately gave up, realising that I didn't get into this sport for it to resemble something like work. i understand people are passionate about this side of the sport but reading this sentence almost made my head fall off.

In 2015, IFKO as an international association of national associations, was the first entity to formally and legally register, at an international level, the unique Social Object that defines our Sport of Kitesports.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby longwhitecloud » Wed May 02, 2018 10:31 pm

i am not exactly stoked on the corruption, cheating and strange goings ons surrounding the politics/ olympics/ws.

i agree with the sentiment. reality though is that someone is going to end up in control and kiteboarding will be better off being in control of its own destiny , not sailing.

things are so strange that kite national associations joining IKA paid into a bank account called "the windsurfing international association"

other sports are going though the same thing right now with olympic grant money possibly on offer. i am not even pro olympics with so much dodgy stuff going on( another subject.. not my motivation)... but support by kiteboarders for kiteboarders... not by sailors for kiteboarders.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby downunder » Thu May 03, 2018 5:04 am

Matteo V wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:00 pm
downunder wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:56 am
And updraft is what? People call that a wind. When we fart, sometimes it's called a wind ;) Do you call air we breath a mixture of nitrogen and oxygen?
Just had to quote you on this one. I really do not know where to go with it other than the explanations I have already given. So try to look at differences I examined in my previous posts between flying and kiting with regards to the number of medias that are interacted with. And specifically, can you fly if the ground wind speed goes to zero if you are already up in the air when flying?

Can you still kite when the difference between the water and air speed goes to zero? Are you willing to give me an answer to those two questions?
I earnestly do not know what to tell you. Hook up with Bille, he might explain way better.


Matteo V wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:09 pm
Another key concept, which I did not mention before, is that a kiteboarder loses the capability to move in a preferred direction after the water's surface is disengaged in a jump.
downunder wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:56 am
Can we change the direction when jumping? It's called a transition. Simple really.
Yes, I jump and loop my transitions all the time. It is not a way in which I get to the other side of the lake or back into the break. I sail there by engaging the water. That is the only way in which you can significantly change your location on the water or "move around".
Than you need to be more specific. Something like "can we jump in way in which I get to the other side of the lake or back into the break?"

downunder wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:56 am
You'll get my respect when you show me your jumps, or your awesome hf skills......
I'll have to regretfully decline your offer to "prove my skills to you". I do have some respect for you as you give your time on this forum and put your thoughts out there for others to scrutinize. But I believe your combative nature may be somewhat a liability to my local kitesurfing locations. My local spots have seen 2 separate combative kiters almost ruin our access. Still, should you get a chance to kiteboard in the central US or the West coast, look me up and I will help you out as much as I can.
Thanks for the offer, but no. What you just wrote above (plus the other thread), is only proving that you'll talk to death everyone not agreeing with your 'terms and conditions', etc on you local. But you're taking it Global here and people are to polite (or scared, as I mentioned), to tell you to 'tone down' your loud and overconfident approach with responding to people (think loud Yanks when overseas, I'm sure you'll dispute this as well).

God save us if you ever engage yourself in this sport decision making globally. And cut this last bs pls, it just sounds wrong...So, thanks and you're on the foes list.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby Matteo V » Thu May 03, 2018 5:48 am

downunder wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:04 am
I earnestly do not know what to tell you. Hook up with Bille, he might explain way better.
You are giving up?

downunder wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:04 am
Than you need to be more specific. Something like "can we jump in way in which I get to the other side of the lake or back into the break?"
You got it!!!

downunder wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:04 am
Thanks for the offer, but no. What you just wrote above (plus the other thread), is only proving that you'll talk to death everyone not agreeing with your 'terms and conditions', etc on you local. But you're taking it Global here and people are to polite (or scared, as I mentioned), to tell you to 'tone down' your loud and overconfident approach with responding to people (think loud Yanks when overseas, I'm sure you'll dispute this as well).

God save us if you ever engage yourself in this sport decision making globally. And cut this last bs pls, it just sounds wrong...So, thanks and you're on the foes list.
I am sorry to be on your "foes list". And I am sorry I had my volume up so loud that it was uncomfortable for you. I will try to "tone down" as you have suggested. As far as my over confidence, I guess I am unsure how that is possible when I have given you an example of a thread where I completely admitted I was wrong. Also, how about me relying on my argument instead of my "street cred" - you know that, "I claim no authority other than the validity of my argument" thingy I stated before.

Again, I highly respect your contribution to the discussion. And yes, I will try to prove my point when I can back that position up with logic, reason, and with evidence. The end game for me is for me to be proven wrong with logic, reason or by being shown evidence. Being wrong is learning, and that is what I am here to do, as well as contribute and help others. That is what a forum is all about.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby knotwindy » Thu May 03, 2018 2:07 pm

Not to put to fine a point on it but it sounds like you enjoy practicing wordy debate tactics far more than you care about learning or information. And no, I won’t debate you about this. Just saying what it sounds like to me.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby Matteo V » Thu May 03, 2018 3:09 pm

knotwindy wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:07 pm
Not to put to fine a point on it but it sounds like you enjoy practicing wordy debate tactics far more than you care about learning or information. And no, I won’t debate you about this. Just saying what it sounds like to me.

I appreciate the criticism, thus I will honor you desire to not make that into a debate. And it is often noted that my explanations are "TL;DR". I personally feel that this is due to my tackling issues that are of a complicated enough manner that they defy simple explanations. The reality could definitely be other wise, as all knowledge which a single human being has access to, is limited. Thus by debating the measurable evidence and discussing the underlying mechanics, I (or anyone with pertinent info) can contribute to understanding by working to eliminate some of the erroneous positions held by those "for or against" in a particular debate. This topic, as an example, still has most watching this thread uninterested or unable to grasp the underlying concept. "Two medias interacted with" in sailing vs "one media interacted with" in flight, is the core concept which seems somewhat difficult to understand even for those who have experience in sailing, kitesurfing, and flying. As far as the political issues in this topic - those I will leave to others to express their "feelings" on.

This topic happens to be one where I understand, and am willing to try to explain, a portion or key concept, which is counter intuitive to most. For the majority of the threads on this forum, I typically lack any knowledge to share beyond what has already been shared. And for some threads, specifically when I am asking a question, I lack pretty much all knowledge on the topic and am seeking to learn from the debate of others.

And again, criticism accepted and appreciated.

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Re: Kitesurfing Inside World Sailing is Illegal

Postby Tiago1973 » Thu May 03, 2018 4:10 pm

It is not necessary to be the same sport to be consolidated within the same responsible body.

FISA got swimming, water-polo, diving, artistic swimming, open waters, etc.

Skate, now an Olympic sport, was placed together with the roller blade (lol) and some others.

For all IFKO claims the reality is that WS has in place a competitive circuit of each kite discipline, where the best athletes compete & I don´t see the slightest hint that they are leaving the WS circuit to align themselves with IFKO (happy to be told I´m wrong).

Leganioux name does carry some weight, but in his own country the government re-located the responsibility over the sport from where it was (´free flight´?) to the sailing federation.

Not hard to guess that the French government thought it would make sense to have the national level organized in alignment with the international competitive circuit.

Given the context, and being nice, IFKO just sound as a waste of time.


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