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Question about boots & progressing

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pipelinez
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Question about boots & progressing

Postby pipelinez » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm

Hey guys,

quick question about boots, im currently riding a cab xcal 141x43 with straps at about ~80kg/175lbs, it seems hard at times to hold the edge/go upwind consistently.
Haven't been kitesurfing that long, started earlier this year, but i've been riding wakeboard at cables since ~2009.

Anyone of you guys have experience with friends/yourself progressing onto boots early in their/your kite career?

Got told that i occasionally still have that "wakeboarding"-stance while edging, i.e. not completely extending my front leg.
A factor might be that I feel like not having the control over the board i would like to have. I can't edge as hard as i would like to, since the board is pretty wide and no matter how hard i pull the toes of my front foot towards me, i won't get the board to angle enough upwind.

The only concerns i have is being dragged on my belly with the board behind my head. No matter how hard the impact on a cable you can just let go of the handle and thats it. How do you guys normally handle those situations?


Appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.
cheers

tomato
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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby tomato » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:16 pm

maybe you are not bending your back leg? Also maybe too much edging in straight position- would just kill power and you plow water instead of going upwind. Twist you hips forward?
If you have hard time to edge- you can move pads 1 position lower to the edge- like light wind boards- will be easier to edge.

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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby SaltWaterDog » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:18 pm

Impossible to know without having seen you, but a decade of wakeboarding will give you some habits that can take time to drop. Have you had lessons? How many sessions on your own the last six months?

Don’t ride boots unless you feel a real passion for getting into wakestyle. The wakeboarding part of your brain is telling you boots will give you better board control but I’m certain riding straps is not the reason why you’re finding it hard to improve our board control. Technique is vital for progression and you’ve probably been told already that board/edge control is everything. With the right technique once you’ve got enough experience you’ll basically be flying the kite through the board.

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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby Jukka » Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:18 pm

I don't have expreince with boots, but I think the issues you describe with straps/ 43 wide board/ 80kg should go away with experience.
I felt a little same when I started. Now I just had a session with 145x48 twintip and no problems edging as much as needed. Just the fact that edging that wide board for 2 hours is tiring on muscles.
Maybe instead of focusing on lifting toes, try to (also) push heels down. Both feet.

pipelinez
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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby pipelinez » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:18 pm

thanks for the answers.
Sure i had lessons, was learning on XR5 & choice2/fusion3, mostly 139/141 and had no problems at all staying upwind. The fusion also didn't have that much rocker, might have helped with staying upwind?
maybe you are not bending your back leg? Also maybe too much edging in straight position- would just kill power and you plow water instead of going upwind. Twist you hips forward?
I try to open my hip as much as possible, when i feel like having enough speed i mostly ride with one hand on the bar and lean into the harness.
How many sessions on your own the last six months?
Roughly 1-3 sessions a week, depending on wind and time. Atleast once a week though.

Generally why im asking about boots is because i want to get into riding wakestyle anyways, i feel like the hits on the cable are becoming too hard and a kite offers more uplift/airtime for rotations & handle passes.

So albeit not having that much experience with a kite the question came to my mind. Wouldn't it make more sense to directly switch over to riding boots?
Only concerns i had were pretty much the things i already mentioned, like being draggend behind the Kite. Also dno if the choice of board was abit ambitious to begin with. :lol:

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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby Faxie » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:39 pm

Get more of that weight on your front leg. Sounds like you're just pushing the backside of the rail into the water, killing the effective edging surface and upwind course. When less powered, same but stand up more straight and keep the kite higher. Otherwise, lean into the kite and keep it lower.

Might help to get used to straps first. Makes the first steps for unhooking a bit easier, and basic hooked tricks are more forgiving. Crashing with boots hooked in is not a lot of fun... and getting back up on the board means twisting your body to get it in front of you in light winds, or send the kite up with some speed to pull your entire body out of the water. After you've relaunched in that awkward position offcourse.

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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby edt » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:40 pm

Just put on the boots and try them out. Modern kiteboard boards are the exact same spacing as wakeboard bindings (6 inches) so they should fit. Get one or two sessions in boots then you'll figure out where you are and if that is how you want to ride. This is one of those things it's hard to get advice in over the interwebs, just something you should try.

Two things: 1 normal kiteboards are often too flexy and soft for boots (you can put more pressure on the board in boots) 2 it's possible that a normal kiteboard will snap in boots when you start carrying over your mobes and tantrums from the wakepark. They make strengthened boards with more rocker specifically for kiteboarding in boots, but at your level, just trying to go upwind, I don't think it's a worry you won't snap your board, just something to think of down the line. Unfortunately it's impossible to ride an actual wakeboard with a kite just way too much rocker you need a flatter board because the kite can't pull as hard a cable can.

Go out there and put your wake boots on your board, see if you like it maybe you do and maybe you don't there's only one way to know for sure and that's do it.

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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby rynhardt » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:25 pm

pipelinez wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm
Hey guys,

quick question about boots, im currently riding a cab xcal 141x43 with straps at about ~80kg/175lbs, it seems hard at times to hold the edge/go upwind consistently.
Haven't been kitesurfing that long, started earlier this year, but i've been riding wakeboard at cables since ~2009.

Anyone of you guys have experience with friends/yourself progressing onto boots early in their/your kite career?

Got told that i occasionally still have that "wakeboarding"-stance while edging, i.e. not completely extending my front leg.
A factor might be that I feel like not having the control over the board i would like to have. I can't edge as hard as i would like to, since the board is pretty wide and no matter how hard i pull the toes of my front foot towards me, i won't get the board to angle enough upwind.

The only concerns i have is being dragged on my belly with the board behind my head. No matter how hard the impact on a cable you can just let go of the handle and thats it. How do you guys normally handle those situations?


Appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.
cheers
Your board size is fine for your weight. Not sure if your problem is holding the edge or going upwind, as these are separate issues.

Going upwind is a subtle and dynamic exercise and proficiency comes with practice. You can't just edge out the board and expect to go upwind - you need to find the balance where you are edging enough to prevent slipping downwind but not choking the board, getting the kite to fly forward in the window, build apparent wind and keep your speed up, etc.

I also spend a lot of time at the cable park, and coming from boots to straps feels scary at first because of the lack of control. You can try tightening your straps but ultimately the loose feeling of straps is something you will get used to. You should be able to edge plenty hard with foot straps however, so I suspect that if you find it difficult to keep an edge you may in fact be trying to edge too hard.

You mention pulling your toes up to edge? I don't know about this, as for me it feels more like digging in my heels. Maybe your weight is too far forward over your toes?

When kiteboarding I still occasionally ride straps, but I mostly ride boots. I find the falls softer than at the cable because I simply never go as fast as I do at the cable and generally the kite pulls upwards more than laterally.
Recovering from a wipeout in boots is only an issue the first two or three times because it's a new experience - you simply have to figure out how to re-orient your body in the water.
If you feel panicky simply hit your QR and try again. It's all good practise. Everybody who kites with boots have had to deal with it - it's simply a part of the progression.

If you find riding upwind challenging (as we all did at some point), I suggest sticking with the foot straps for the time being. It's a lot easier to take off the board and walk upwind with straps, as opposed to with boots.

Here's a short clip of me doing a beach start with boots.. just because :D


pipelinez
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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby pipelinez » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 pm

rynhardt wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:25 pm
pipelinez wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:46 pm
Hey guys,

quick question about boots, im currently riding a cab xcal 141x43 with straps at about ~80kg/175lbs, it seems hard at times to hold the edge/go upwind consistently.
Haven't been kitesurfing that long, started earlier this year, but i've been riding wakeboard at cables since ~2009.

Anyone of you guys have experience with friends/yourself progressing onto boots early in their/your kite career?

Got told that i occasionally still have that "wakeboarding"-stance while edging, i.e. not completely extending my front leg.
A factor might be that I feel like not having the control over the board i would like to have. I can't edge as hard as i would like to, since the board is pretty wide and no matter how hard i pull the toes of my front foot towards me, i won't get the board to angle enough upwind.

The only concerns i have is being dragged on my belly with the board behind my head. No matter how hard the impact on a cable you can just let go of the handle and thats it. How do you guys normally handle those situations?


Appreciate anyone who took the time to read this.
cheers
Your board size is fine for your weight. Not sure if your problem is holding the edge or going upwind, as these are separate issues.

Going upwind is a subtle and dynamic exercise and proficiency comes with practice. You can't just edge out the board and expect to go upwind - you need to find the balance where you are edging enough to prevent slipping downwind but not choking the board, getting the kite to fly forward in the window, build apparent wind and keep your speed up, etc.

I also spend a lot of time at the cable park, and coming from boots to straps feels scary at first because of the lack of control. You can try tightening your straps but ultimately the loose feeling of straps is something you will get used to. You should be able to edge plenty hard with foot straps however, so I suspect that if you find it difficult to keep an edge you may in fact be trying to edge too hard.

You mention pulling your toes up to edge? I don't know about this, as for me it feels more like digging in my heels. Maybe your weight is too far forward over your toes?

When kiteboarding I still occasionally ride straps, but I mostly ride boots. I find the falls softer than at the cable because I simply never go as fast as I do at the cable and generally the kite pulls upwards more than laterally.
Recovering from a wipeout in boots is only an issue the first two or three times because it's a new experience - you simply have to figure out how to re-orient your body in the water.
If you feel panicky simply hit your QR and try again. It's all good practise. Everybody who kites with boots have had to deal with it - it's simply a part of the progression.

If you find riding upwind challenging (as we all did at some point), I suggest sticking with the foot straps for the time being. It's a lot easier to take off the board and walk upwind with straps, as opposed to with boots.

Here's a short clip of me doing a beach start with boots.. just because :D

Well, it just feels like i cannot hold the edge. Probably because im not used to riding straps.
But i reckon it also might just be me trying to go upwind and edging, like i would edge when loading up tension on the cable.

We'll have around 16-18kn tomorrow should be alright for the first session with boots.

cheers

NorCalNomad
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Re: Question about boots & progressing

Postby NorCalNomad » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:02 am

too big of a board


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