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Kite company's are out of their minds

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JustAGirl
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby JustAGirl » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:12 pm

Oh c’mon seriously? This thread isn’t happening, is it?

Where are we? Schwarzenegger & leftie Hollywood finally colonized Mars & we are living a third world nightmare there?

Anything of quality needs TIME, resources, Human Resources & ingenuity & they all need to get paid. Stop whining & do your bit, unless you want to let aristocrats run the world again. Honestly they did a better job bc they weren’t skinflints. I left academe bc it turned into a third world slave mine, ppl churning out 10 meaningless articles a year to meet production quotas (this is RESEARCH we’re talkin, which is the most time-consuming activity!), empty paperwork, fake science, instead of real research, watering down the quality of thinking. Welcome to 3rd world science gone global. US universities used to pump money into quality but they tanked, no chance of survival in a third world economy. Thank God Trump is trying to turn things around!

If you run a business you know it’s no picnic; to put out quality you need money, time, talent, you need to support the right ppl with the right skills...

Build your own kites & boards then if you think of someone else’s labor so little

How hard is it to respect the work of others? Cheap planet, cheap people, an ocean full of trash, yeah, that’s brilliant

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K-Roy
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby K-Roy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:47 pm

IMO the kite gear, but especially the kites and surf boards are way over priced.
I understand R&D and all, but these equipments don't last that long.
no wonders the average age on a kite spot is 35-55,
my Son kites, but only because of my commitment to the sport.
kite bars going for around 600 Euro is crazy!!!

on a side note, in our country, we don't have Euro or US$ so all prices are converted to local currency, a new kite&bar could cost approx. 2 moths average wage...
and to top it all, we are a land locked country, so for "regular " kiting one need to travel, so its definitely an elite sport.

cheers

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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby TomW » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 pm

I make my own boards, sell a few to finance my learning. I make 18$ ( actually 180 Swedish kronor) per hour before taxes making them. Price is 850€ for my boards, and they take 30 hrs to make. About 300€ in materials. After taxes I have 7-8 $ per hour in hand.
My boards work as good or better than production models.

Making my own bars. They cost about 100-150€ to make and a few hours here and there, perhaps 4 hrs all together. Then I have to buy lines for them. Don't sell these at all. They work OK, but production models are way better than mine.

Not making hydrofoils because the cost+hours and difficulty of design. But working on a method to use 3D printer. I'll never make a Hydrofoil strut.... Too much work. I don't think I can make one work as good and be as reliable.
A carbon Moses hydrofoil set up costs 1500€, which I think is one of the most reasonable priced item out there.

Try to make your own kite. Go for it and let me know how many hours it takes and how good it works. Kites can be found used, outgoing models or get your retailer to cut you a deal.

I save some money doing this, but that's not really why I do it.
It does help me appreciate the prices companies charge.

grigorib
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby grigorib » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:19 pm

TomW - very valid way of appreciating the price!

Not sure about Europe, I’ll go reasonable for US scenario. Let’s say a friend wants to get into sport cheap way:

1. New on sale or used harness $80-$120
2. New on sale or used bar/lines $120-$190
3. New on sale or used TT board $200-$250 complete
4. New on sale or used aluminum foil setup $700-$1000
5. New on sale or used kite $350-$550
6. Half-finger gloves $14, floatation vest $50

I’m talking quality gear, nothing overly fancy but well rideable. At $1000 mark you can be riding if you have patience to wait for sale or right gear to pop up on classifieds. If you go to places like Gorge, you can get stuff cheaper locally, way, way cheaper.

How much money do you earn at $10-$15 an hour low-paid job? $400-$600 a week, $1500-$2500 a month depending on hours and given there’s other income in the family you should be able to afford the sport

I’ve seen guys buying a “fused up bolts” foil at Real sale for $200 plus a wkeskate board for $50
I’ve seen brand new Moses setup (no board) sold for 940eur, so there are bargain deals around.

Not all that tragic as I see it...

Now if you’re on a mission to own new, latest and greatest you gotta start saving some cash and bargain at the kite shops. Call them and say you’d pay $400 for $500 bar. Chances are they’d sell it for $350 and still be at profit depending on the deal they’ve got to start with.
Last edited by grigorib on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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K-Roy
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby K-Roy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:26 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:55 pm
I make my own boards, sell a few to finance my learning. I make 18$ ( actually 180 Swedish kronor) per hour before taxes making them. Price is 850€ for my boards, and they take 30 hrs to make. About 300€ in materials. After taxes I have 7-8 $ per hour in hand.
My boards work as good or better than production models.

Making my own bars. They cost about 100-150€ to make and a few hours here and there, perhaps 4 hrs all together. Then I have to buy lines for them. Don't sell these at all. They work OK, but production models are way better than mine.

Not making hydrofoils because the cost+hours and difficulty of design. But working on a method to use 3D printer. I'll never make a Hydrofoil strut.... Too much work. I don't think I can make one work as good and be as reliable.
A carbon Moses hydrofoil set up costs 1500€, which I think is one of the most reasonable priced item out there.

Try to make your own kite. Go for it and let me know how many hours it takes and how good it works. Kites can be found used, outgoing models or get your retailer to cut you a deal.

I save some money doing this, but that's not really why I do it.
It does help me appreciate the prices companies charge.
hello Tom,
I get your point!
However, on one hand we have a custom board, hand built by a Swedish man, in Sweden and the other hand we have a mass volume board made by a machine in China...
I have all the respect for what you and people like you bring to this sport. (my wife have a Nomad board on order right now and we are happy for the opportunity to have a custom board for her)

Of coarse we can't make our own kites, this is why they can ask as much as they want for it...
a surf board for 1300 euro (made in China) is I think border line criminal...

just my two cent

coupdevill
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby coupdevill » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:07 pm

So how much should you pay for a new:

Kite-
Board-
Control Bar-
Harness-

How much, since some of you think prices are to high, how much should you be paying. As an aside, I work in product distribution and sometimes manufacturing and development, I have insight into landed cost, marketing, sales and distribution numbers and I assure you no one is getting wealthy off the poor kiter and remember we don't kite to save money, we kite because every time we go out it pays a dividend! Your investment in kite gear gives you and ROI every time you use it!

So how much should your kit cost, how much?

coup

a99
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby a99 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:25 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:19 pm
TomW - very valid way of appreciating the price!

Not sure about Europe, I’ll go reasonable for US scenario. Let’s say a friend wants to get into sport cheap way:

1. New on sale or used harness $80-$120
2. New on sale or used bar/lines $120-$190
3. New on sale or used TT board $200-$250 complete
4. New on sale or used aluminum foil setup $700-$1000
5. New on sale or used kite $350-$550
6. Half-finger gloves $14, floatation vest $50

I’m talking quality gear, nothing overly fancy but well rideable. At $1000 mark you can be riding if you have patience to wait for sale or right gear to pop up on classifieds. If you go to places like Gorge, you can get stuff cheaper locally, way. [ ]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Plus you forgot to add:
7. Wetsuite 150 usd at least
8. WetBoats 30 usd
9. Helmet 30 usd
10. Second smaller kite 400-500 usd
11. Travel/fuel expenses to spot 20-40 usd
12. Parking expenses 10 usd ?
13. Piq or woo sensor 100 usd
14. Food/water, etc 20-40 usd
12. Additinal can be room rent 50-80 usd per night.

And we have another 1000 usd plus easy.
It's really expensive sport, of course not so expensive as aero or auto sports.

grigorib
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Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby grigorib » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 pm

a99 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:25 pm
grigorib wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:19 pm
TomW - very valid way of appreciating the price!

Not sure about Europe, I’ll go reasonable for US scenario. Let’s say a friend wants to get into sport cheap way:

1. New on sale or used harness $80-$120
2. New on sale or used bar/lines $120-$190
3. New on sale or used TT board $200-$250 complete
4. New on sale or used aluminum foil setup $700-$1000
5. New on sale or used kite $350-$550
6. Half-finger gloves $14, floatation vest $50

I’m talking quality gear, nothing overly fancy but well rideable. At $1000 mark you can be riding if you have patience to wait for sale or right gear to pop up on classifieds. If you go to places like Gorge, you can get stuff cheaper locally, way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Plus you forgot to add:
7. Wetsuite 150 usd at least
8. WetBoats 30 usd
9. Helmet 30 usd
10. Second smaller kite 400-500 usd
11. Travel/fuel expenses to spot 20-40 usd
12. Parking expenses 10 usd ?
13. Piq or woo sensor 100 usd
14. Food/water, etc 20-40 usd
12. Additinal can be room rent 50-80 usd per night.

And we have another 1000 usd plus easy.
It's really expensive sport, of course not so expensive as aero or auto sports.
7. wetsuit $50-$120 on sale at Amazon
8. boots $35
9. Helmet?
10. Second smaller kite is called an addiction and only first dose is free. You can get a small kite for $250-$300
11. Travel expenses. How do they get around otherwise? Use the same
12. Parking is free at so many spots, and if you ask nicely you can ride from someone else's spot too.
13. Piq /woo - what the hell a newbie needs one for? To brag? nope.
14. Food/water. How were they going to survive that day otherwise? Use the same
12. Room? Sleep in the car if poor or share room or camp. $15 camping or drive back home

Folks can afford to pay $8 beer at the bar and $20 pizza on a regular evening day, so come on...people got cash
Last edited by grigorib on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SaltWaterDog
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Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby SaltWaterDog » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:47 pm

If you were to buy everything new from 3 kite quiver (with LW kite) to board and wet gear in order to kite year round in Northern Europe (water from 18C to 0C) you could easily drop €10,000. You would be completely covered and of course you could also get away with paying €3.000 less, but as has been said, it’s not a cheap sport and it probably never will be. There’s no shame buying used and places like Facebook frequently turn up incredible deals on full quivers, but new crunchy canopies will never be cheap.

grigorib
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Posts: 987
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite company's are out of their minds

Postby grigorib » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:15 pm

coupdevill wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:07 pm
So how much should you pay for a new:

Kite-
Board-
Control Bar-
Harness-

How much, since some of you think prices are to high, how much should you be paying. As an aside, I work in product distribution and sometimes manufacturing and development, I have insight into landed cost, marketing, sales and distribution numbers and I assure you no one is getting wealthy off the poor kiter and remember we don't kite to save money, we kite because every time we go out it pays a dividend! Your investment in kite gear gives you and ROI every time you use it!

So how much should your kit cost, how much?

coup
Affiliation: none? :)

The market demand and supply is to set price, right? Plus government wants their cut in taxes, plus shipping...

But overall I can tell you that as of now I consider great prices of brand new gear to look like these:
Kite: LEI $450-$650
Board: $500 for carbon TT complete. $1100 for carbon foil, $350 for a small foilboard deck
Bar: $200
Harness: $150

Above are borderline sale prices I look for and I occasionally cough up 50% more for the latest/greatest
Last edited by grigorib on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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