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Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

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Flyfish
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby Flyfish » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:04 pm

grigorib wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:46 pm

You should try the speed4 in deluxe. Not the Lotus Speed4 made by stencils of Speed4 but the first Speed4 series one which is more of Psycho like extension. They only made 8m/10m kites and sizes in both standard/deluxe fabrics. A/B/Z rows only, no jetflaps, no zippers, battens on the LE - really awesome wing
100% agree!
Awsome for wave ridding. Simple. Great drift.

kiterocky
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby kiterocky » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:07 pm

U should try a real wave kite maybe....

PullStrings
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby PullStrings » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:19 pm

foilholio wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 pm
Psycho...one day
You claim to only ride ram airs now w/ 10,000+ hours on them
Have you ridden tubes ever ?
If so how many hours ?

It sure is less complicated with tubes
I mean most of them have bridles with pulleys
No need to tinker with them

With rams the mixer ...basically bridles with pulleys
Needs complex at time...A...B...C...Z...adjustments
Pain in the A** for majority of people...don't you think ?

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jakemoore
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:42 pm

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:19 pm
Pain in the A** for majority of people...don't you think ?
Not much different than tuning bar line lengths. Definitely easier that patching a bladder.

PullStrings
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby PullStrings » Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:20 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:42 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:19 pm
Pain in the A** for majority of people...don't you think ?
Not much different than tuning bar line lengths.
Mixer tuning is quite different...foilholio can write a novel about it
I've always been used to leave bar/lines ** never detach ** on all the couple dozen ram airs i have had
So now with no ram airs and 7 sizes LEI i do the same thing....each kite has his own already tuned bar line lengths..no more extra work to do..just ride

Time now for Mixed drinks

Image

foilholio
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby foilholio » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:57 am

Feel free to debate but biggest disadvantages of tubes are PIN HOLE leaks, sand in the bladder making said leaks, slow setup, pumping, owning a pump, maintaining a pump, sand in a pump, poor performance, poor upwind, poor float, poor power, small range, poor steering response depowered( different for different models), leaving lines connected is a pain, poor longevity, poor durability, easily damaged in waves, not a smooth feel, rough at the bar, gusts are harder, poor drift particularly in light wind, no hot air balloon effect, heavier weight, more bulky, less safe, poorer flagging, can't flag kite well by pulling on any line, some models can't fly off the front lines, death loops(not something foils really do), bridles get stuck on kite, inverting a kite can severely damage it, rolling a kite in waves can cause lines to cut it in 2, I think I could go on but that's enough for now.

Yes there are lots of disadvantages to foils but adjusting the mixer, or better said just Z, is actually not really a disadvantage. The mixer allows massive changes to kite performance not available for TUBEs. I would say it's a massive advantage. If you think it's a disadvantage well I think you just don't understand it yet.

There you go some more lines for the novel. LOL

kiterocky wrote:U should try a real wave kite maybe....
Yep there are some not bad ones out there, but not without above said disadvantages of a tube. Me personally I prefer a surf kite. U should try one maybe....

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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby grigorib » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:57 am

Dude, if you believe in what you wrote I’d seriously doubt your judgments about anything else you talk about. Not sure which LEI you’re describing but things have changes in past the 15 years even if it sucked that bad as you put it.
You and PMU make a nice pair of severely confused guys.

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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby foilholio » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 am

I do believe what I wrote which is why I wrote it. Which bit do you particularly disagree? Sure kites have changed in 15 years but Tubes have really stagnated in the last few though, despite what marketing may assert otherwise. Maybe my choice of words is poor. At the end of the day though there is no escaping the fundamental technology choices, inflatable tubes have issues and so do foils. Most people choose to put up with tubes, few put up with foils. I am the few. I am well aware of the disadvantages of foils though. If you would like I can list them too. Listing the bad side of tubes like that does seem biased, but it is not often done.

Oh and you should be skeptical of anything you read, especially on the internet. There is a lot of BS out there and here. It is often dressed in pomp and trying to impress, just see the article of this thread for proof of that. Dig into it and sort the rubbish from the truth.
Last edited by foilholio on Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kamikuza
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:24 am

PullStrings wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:20 pm
I've always been used to leave bar/lines ** never detach ** on all the couple dozen ram airs i have had
All the foil guys here have converted from tubes, and continue the tradition of one bar for all their kites.

Yes, they take the bar off the kite and yes they get it all tangled.

Always good comedy watching them on the beach trying to untangle it.

An hour is stretching the joke a bit thin though.

Although it's kinda ironic -- these are all the guys who thought I was mad for using foil kites and having to shake out a couple of bridle tangles after unpacking...

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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby foilholio » Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:35 am

It's kind of like they are reinventing the wheel. They have to do it their way because all us long time foil users must have something wrong with us to have been using foil kites before the race foils appeared. Because you know it's is common knowledge foil kites are inferior in every way and it's just the new race foils that have a bit of an advantage, you know.

In short yes Kami it is funny. A few smart ones are waking up, buying more bars and even trying other styles of foils. What will kitesurfing look like in 20 years?


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