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Board design - also a boring question

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Kamikuza
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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:17 am

rynhardt wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:57 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:12 pm
fluidity wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:39 am


They don't.
Curving off the corners reduces the end width while leaving length. This makes them ride softer and give some stability against nose diving while being more responsive to rear foot control. Also, when you are carving the edge is shorter so the board becomes more responsive.

Leaving the corners on? The last part of the board when you leave the water for a jump, the last part of the board you are carving up wind with.

So a rounder board: more fun.
Squarer board: Better for jumping.

And less rocker will give you more air time as you will get up wind faster, easier.
More rocker, more responsive, carves faster, easier to handle in waves and easier to go very fast without catching the front, needs more power though.
Couldn't you soften the board by construction methods and keep the greater planing area? eg flex tips

How is the edge shorter when you're carving?

Why does more rocker carve faster? Wouldn't the whole board just flatten out as it loads up?

I can see how it'd be faster or easier edge to edge because the tip is thinner... but by enough to matter? I really notice the spray and difficulty planing on narrow tip boards...
I think board length plays a big role here.
My wave twinny has pointy ends, and it's the easiest board to hold an edge with. In fact I can hold insane amounts of edge with it, long after my square tip boards start skipping out.
Also no issues with spray or planing or upwind.
Then again I haven't ridden any of my square tip boards in the last few years.
Your mileage will vary.
I need more power than normal for my Mako but it digs in like nothing else.

There's just no information out there about WHY the outline needs to be curved, just lots of explanations ("outline or sidecut is the shape of the edges") or discussions about the different types of outline, and a few contradicting statements about what they do.

It's a mystery...!

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby pj sofine » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:06 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:17 am

I need more power than normal for my Mako but it digs in like nothing else.

There's just no information out there about WHY the outline needs to be curved, just lots of explanations ("outline or sidecut is the shape of the edges") or discussions about the different types of outline, and a few contradicting statements about what they do.

It's a mystery...!
I've often wondered why I prefer women that have a nice curved outline,hmmmm, quite the mystery :buttsmile:

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby fluidity » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:42 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:12 pm
How is the edge shorter when you're carving?
Why does more rocker carve faster? Wouldn't the whole board just flatten out as it loads up?
How is the edge shorter when you're carving?- Because square tips are in the water far away from your feet, you need more torque to change the board angle. And oval shape doesn't stick so far down into the water front or back which are the places that take most effort to turn because you have the worst leverage there.

Why does more rocker carve faster? - as you tilt the board around it's long axis the curve of the rocker steers the board, to naturally follow that curved path through the water. More rocker, smaller turning radius. Boards flattening as they load up are another subject, dependent on board flexibility and footstrap position too.

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:16 pm

Does it matter, given how small the differences between the shapes would be?

Even a square flat board will carve because it'll flex and you get your weight behind the back foot to drive it round. I've been looking at Slingshot Glide videos...probably the squarest flattest board out there :D

...man I'd love to be able to build board!

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby downunder » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Whats stopping you? ;)

Cmon, I've been using my 2x1.5m laundry for years...

Anyways, spray comes from edges, sand off the edges on some angle = no spray. At least on my boards.

Why negative outline on some boards? I.e. Litewave. More area.

Less area less drag, the optimum is somewhere in the middle.

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:51 am

downunder wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Whats stopping you? ;)

Cmon, I've been using my 2x1.5m laundry for years...

Anyways, spray comes from edges, sand off the edges on some angle = no spray. At least on my boards.

Why negative outline on some boards? I.e. Litewave. More area.

Less area less drag, the optimum is somewhere in the middle.
Ugh, having to learn everything involved for a start :D then shipping in the materials, finding the time, finding the space where I could leave it undisturbed...

Spray in chop looks to me like it comes from the edge near the nose. The more pulled in they are, the more it hits my leg and goes straight up into my face. Straighter rail and board ridden flat = less problem. More weight on the back foot = less problem.

Less area = less planing ability, no? Which is draggy is it not? Any time I've ridden a flat-bottemed boards, it's felt incredibly draggy compared to my channeled boards...but making those are even harder, aren't they?

I need to win the lottery :lol:

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Macster » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

ASP in NZ built me a custom board for $800 AUD. The first one was too thin and snapped but to their credit they replaced it with a thicker one.

We spent a lot of time talking about riding styles and preferences, sizes etc before pulling the trigger.

Really happy with the outcome. I got a 144 x 46cm that is strong enough for boots. Its my lightwind weapon that still allows me to do unhooked tricks in 10-15 knots. The load and pop takes a bit more effort to dig a rail in at that size but it is still agile.

My normal board is the Naish Stomp which I love but has such an aggressive rocker that even 15 knots is challenging on a 12m Vegas.

Id still like to build my own board for fun but try ASP if you want a solid outcome.

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Kamikuza » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:33 pm

Macster wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm
ASP in NZ built me a custom board for $800 AUD. The first one was too thin and snapped but to their credit they replaced it with a thicker one.

We spent a lot of time talking about riding styles and preferences, sizes etc before pulling the trigger.

Really happy with the outcome. I got a 144 x 46cm that is strong enough for boots. Its my lightwind weapon that still allows me to do unhooked tricks in 10-15 knots. The load and pop takes a bit more effort to dig a rail in at that size but it is still agile.

My normal board is the Naish Stomp which I love but has such an aggressive rocker that even 15 knots is challenging on a 12m Vegas.

Id still like to build my own board for fun but try ASP if you want a solid outcome.
ASP shop is in my hometown :D so yeah, that sounds like an idea. What was the timeframe on that?

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby downunder » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:52 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:51 am
downunder wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:37 pm
Whats stopping you? ;)

Cmon, I've been using my 2x1.5m laundry for years...

Anyways, spray comes from edges, sand off the edges on some angle = no spray. At least on my boards.

Why negative outline on some boards? I.e. Litewave. More area.

Less area less drag, the optimum is somewhere in the middle.
Ugh, having to learn everything involved for a start :D then shipping in the materials, finding the time, finding the space where I could leave it undisturbed...

Spray in chop looks to me like it comes from the edge near the nose. The more pulled in they are, the more it hits my leg and goes straight up into my face. Straighter rail and board ridden flat = less problem. More weight on the back foot = less problem.

Less area = less planing ability, no? Which is draggy is it not? Any time I've ridden a flat-bottemed boards, it's felt incredibly draggy compared to my channeled boards...but making those are even harder, aren't they?

I need to win the lottery :lol:
Excuses:)

I mean, we discussing this for, dunno, 7 years now? I'm sending SS inserts all over the World, ppl are doing it as we type this.

For 800 I can build 10+ boards. Its that cheap.

Why do you think Ive got a sewing machine? Already did heaps with it, Best Buy ever.

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Re: Board design -- also a boring question

Postby Macster » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:07 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:33 pm
Macster wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm
ASP in NZ built me a custom board for $800 AUD. The first one was too thin and snapped but to their credit they replaced it with a thicker one.

We spent a lot of time talking about riding styles and preferences, sizes etc before pulling the trigger.

Really happy with the outcome. I got a 144 x 46cm that is strong enough for boots. Its my lightwind weapon that still allows me to do unhooked tricks in 10-15 knots. The load and pop takes a bit more effort to dig a rail in at that size but it is still agile.

My normal board is the Naish Stomp which I love but has such an aggressive rocker that even 15 knots is challenging on a 12m Vegas.

Id still like to build my own board for fun but try ASP if you want a solid outcome.
ASP shop is in my hometown :D so yeah, that sounds like an idea. What was the timeframe on that?
3 or 4 weeks with delivery. Aaron is the guy.


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