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Ozone kites 12m low end experience

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mikelet
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby mikelet » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm

I'm kiting since 2002/2003 , i owned many types of kites and boards during that time that i realized that sining up and down like crazy to get moving the lawn in LW with a fast kite and efficient board it's not fun anymore and takes me nowhere , i don't need the fastest kite out there for LW , i need projected area and something more opened than a C kite.....i trade fast turning for low end grunt and comfy power...but that's me and my 95kg.....once the wind hits the 18 knots mark everything changes ...and my smaller wave kites comes alive.....

alford
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby alford » Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:10 am

mikelet wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm
I'm kiting since 2002/2003 , i owned many types of kites and boards during that time that i realized that sining up and down like crazy to get moving the lawn in LW with a fast kite and efficient board it's not fun anymore and takes me nowhere , i don't need the fastest kite out there for LW , i need projected area and something more opened than a C kite.....i trade fast turning for low end grunt and comfy power...but that's me and my 95kg.....once the wind hits the 18 knots mark everything changes ...and my smaller wave kites comes alive.....
So what kite fits the bill for grunty low end and comfy power in light wind?

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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Macster » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:06 am

mikelet wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm
I'm kiting since 2002/2003 , i owned many types of kites and boards during that time that i realized that sining up and down like crazy to get moving the lawn in LW with a fast kite and efficient board it's not fun anymore and takes me nowhere , i don't need the fastest kite out there for LW , i need projected area and something more opened than a C kite.....i trade fast turning for low end grunt and comfy power...but that's me and my 95kg.....once the wind hits the 18 knots mark everything changes ...and my smaller wave kites comes alive.....
Fair enough. The new Evo and Bandit could be worth a go (more delta shape). I think they offer a really good compromise of agility with low end grunt without bowing down completely to a bow kite.

Personally I ride a foil, surfboard or twin tip to suit the conditions and how I feel, makes kiting way more enjoyable than being pigeonholed. Big air when its blowing, unhooking freestyle in moderate wind and foiling or surfing in low wind.

Havre
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Havre » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:10 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:48 am
Havre wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:49 pm
mikelet wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:11 pm
In my experience , stay away from ozone if you're a big guy and really want low end from other models than the Zephyr.....
I'm flying ozone since the first Instincts back in 2006.....lately owned Reos and Enduros.....i have always found they are amazing in médium to strong winds ...but don't know if due to flatter profiles, thinner LE's or that all models being the same open C desing with poor projected área, compared to other brands, that for me, they lack low end.....always found myself with insanely big boards ( sectors 60&54 and super wide strapless surfboards) in thermal low winds....
At 95 kg I upgraded to Cabrinha Contra 15 and SB 12 , and what a diference!!!......parked all my big boards all the summer.....
As i said it, long time ago here in the forum ...Ozone should have made their homework and scale down the Zephyrs ,maybe a 13m and 15m , similar to what Cabrinha did with their Contras...for big guys Freeride...to have some more projected área with médium AR in the air in LW.....instead of stupid school Catalyst models....
I´m not sure if I follow. If you lack power in "low wind" (which is a relative term depending on the size of the kite) why not go bigger?

I have the opposite experience with Enduro vs. Switchblade. I´m 100-105kg myself and I have found myself having decent power while my friend at around 80-85kg was starting to complain he didn´t have enough on his similar sized Switchblade. Hardly scientific, but....

I do agree that the Zephyr is a bit like a big truck. It pulls regardless in a way the Enduro wouldn´t. Not sure if that is down to design or the nature of a big kite. Makes less sense to have such a "power profile" with a smaller kite you can move faster anyway in my opinion.

As for the OP. I love the Catalyst, but except for water relaunch I don´t really think it does anything better than the Enduro (not that the Enduro is difficult to relaunch, but the Catalyst almost bounces up again) - which is a very versatile. So unless you are saving a significant amount of money I would go for the Enduro (I went from Catalyst to Enduro myself).
Some have no low end grunt, especially when loaded up ie. Reo, Enduro. Classic example was a buddy trying to do a tandem ride after he was riding solo and powered up, but tandem couldn't get onto a plane and the kite kept buckling. I was on a Switchblade of the same size, so...
I might be ignorant here, but aren't we then talking about wind window?

Let's say the sweet spot is 20 knots. So both Enduro and Switchblade at 12m are flying perfectly at 20 knots without being overpowered. You are arguing that if the wind drops (let's say to 15) then the Switchblade is still OK, but the Enduro is not? How about 25 knots? Would the Switchblade and Enduro be equally overpowered? If so the Switchblade has a wider window and would by that standard be a better kite.

As for the Zephyr. Great kite when the wind is weak, but being overpowered on it is quite a challenge. So what you "gain" in one end you pay for it in the other. For a big kite it makes sense making it that way - not sure if I see the need for a smaller one. If a 12 doesn't give you enough power then use a 13. That is just a matter of how the quiver is built overlapping each other. So for me the lack of "low end grunt" is irrelevant. If I want more power I use the bigger kite.

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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:40 pm

Yes, you got it :) Maybe if you're an "average kiter" of 75kg then you'll not notice it, but add some weight and try again, like my tandeming buddy.

The issue with low end is moot if you get perfectly consistent and constant wind speeds. We don't. Bigger kites suck, and switching gear around constantly to stay in the sweet sport sucks even more so.

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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby mikelet » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:18 pm

Why would i go with a bigger kite , if i can go with the same size kite as you being heavier ??, Again....the diference is not only the size but projected área and low end grunt....
I can go with my Cabrinha SB 12m parked , while i probably should sine as crazy my old Enduro 12m......Only tradeoff a bit of turning speed....
That's my point on scaling down the Zephyrs.....
Long live for Bow kites !!

Havre
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Havre » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:15 pm

That is not a question of constantly switching around. With my 9-12-17 I cover all conditions I have ever experienced. At 100kg+ I have never experienced wind more powerful than I could handle with a 9 (of course it exists, but for most kite spots wind that strong is very rare). A 3 kite quiver is quite normal, and it is not like Cabrinha, even if it is correct that they have a larger window than Ozone (my experience is the opposite), would be able to handle the total window I got with my 3 kites with 2. In theory I could have had 8-11-15 with Cabrinha. Covering the same low wind (if you are correct) and covering slightly more of the stronger wind with an 8 compared to a 9.

I randomly ended up with Ozone. My first kite was an Ozone from the school I took my lessons at (I learned with Best and Core - so had nothing to do with me having used Ozone when learning). My second kite was also an Ozone. Again quite randomly as this shop had one which had been completely torn apart in the waves, but stitched back together again. I got it so dirty keep I couldn´t say no. Then I have just stuck to Ozone ever since. If, when the time comes to buy new ones again, I get a good deal on Cabrinha I wouldn´t have any issue changing over to another brand, but the size of the wind window wouldn´t be part of my decision making process. Unless someone comes up with a new design that removes the need to have 3 kites moving to 2 or 1 for the same "total wind window".

Of course if the plan is to have only one or maybe two kites - then having a wide window is more important.

I personally don´t see the point with a slow 12m Zephyr - unless you only own one kite and want to have the widest window possible. That is a subjective thing of course.

mikelet
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby mikelet » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:42 pm

Why do you asume an hypothetic 12m Zephyr should be slow ??? , and compared to what ??, to a wave kite ??( any kite will be a tad slower than a wave kite,it's common knowledge, as also it's that a bow kite with more projected área it's more powerful than a C shaped kite as far as both have similar AR ...despite the downstroke or upstroke pull i'm talking of static pull ....)
And by the way i don't find my SB's to be slow kites at all....
Last edited by mikelet on Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Havre
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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Havre » Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:45 pm

mikelet wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:42 pm
Why do you asume an hypothetic 12m Zephyr should be slow ??? , and compared to what ??, to a wave kite ??( any kite will be a tad slower than a wave kite,it's common knowledge, as also it's that a bow kite with more projected área it's more powerful than a C shaped kite as far as both have similar AR ....)
And by the way i don't find my SB's to be slow kites at all....
I wouldn’t be against a 12m Zephyr if the assumption is that such a kite would do everything Enduro does and more.

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Re: Ozone kites 12m low end experience

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:45 am

mikelet wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:18 pm
Long live for Bow kites !!
I miss my Crossbows too


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