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WARNING TO SNAP SHACKLE USERS!!!

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Postby Guest » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:28 pm

how do you connect the ring to the depower line ? have you got some pics ?

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KiteGlider
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Postby KiteGlider » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:34 pm

On 2003-01-22 18:59, Protos wrote:
I use one of the Wipika Throttle bars with the pin QR, I've used it a few times (mostly just to test it, once during a dicey overpowered relaunch) and it has worked great so far.


I had the 2001 version with the pin that bends after a few sessions. A heavier gage pin in Rick's photo might be the way to go.

And maybe a fixed loop with QR to help when reconnecting after release off shore.

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Postby murdoc » Wed Jan 22, 2003 7:36 pm

rick,
there's a big difference between snapshackles.
the one you display is the wichard-model that's actually the only one i know that properly releases on the chickenloop.
all the standard-shackles that have an 'eye' at the end of the releasing 'leg' may get caught, but this wichard is made for releasing a rope (as far as i know and the sailshop-guy told me).
i used this particular shackle with a chickenloop for over 1.5 years now and had a lot of loaded releases where it worked fine.

another good argument to use a ring instead of a normal loop is that you'll gain depower-space.

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Postby RickI » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:50 pm

Murdoc,

You raise a good point. The Wichard and Tylaska or "tip release" snap shackles tend to open more readily. There is some evidence to suggest that "side release" snap shackles such as the one shown below may not release if heavily loaded, are rigged upside down, are jammed with sand, etc. The "side release" shackles do cost less, about half that price of the Wichards and Tylaskas but what good does the savings do if they contribute to an accident.

Image

It would be nice to move away from the mechanical complexity and maintenance demands of snap shackles to pin Quick Releases, IF... they prove to be reliable. My experience to date with the Wipika 2002 model has been positive but it is still early. It would be good to periodically inspect the pins in this QR to verify that they aren't bent and to test them regularly.

Until release systems are proven to be highly reliable or even better, automatic, it falls on us to avoid problems rather than to try to manage them if everything hits the fan for the best outcome.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi

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Postby Guest » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:52 pm

I just received my order for "punch Out" bars from Ocean Rodeo. By simply pushing up on the bar it releases the chicken loop... never having to remove a hand off the bar. Basically does the same thing as the quick relaese with the little red knob on the chicken loop...... but again without removing a hand off the bar.
This should be a big advancement in safety!
Andy All Wet Sports

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Postby RickI » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:09 pm

The Ocean Rodeo Bar provides yet more options for releasing the control bar in an emergency. It is a brand new design but early reports are positive.

http://groups.msn.com/flkitesurfer/surf ... snw?Page=1

Image

and

Image



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RickI on 2003-01-22 21:12 ]</font>

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Postby Wolfgang » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:40 pm

On 2003-01-22 20:50, RickI wrote:
Murdoc,

You raise a good point. The Wichard and Tylaska or "tip release" snap shackles tend to open more readily. There is some evidence to suggest that "side release" snap shackles such as the one shown below may not release if heavily loaded, are rigged upside down, are jammed with sand, etc. The "side release" shackles do cost less, about half that price of the Wichards and Tylaskas but what good does the savings do if they contribute to an accident.

Image



Exact, Rick, this kind of snap shackle has the problem, not the Wichard.

I tested this snap shackle myself last year in a SELF TEST, it's easy: fix a rope somewhere, hook in, have some 20 cm to the ground and something soft there, then relaese with your full body weight pulling, later take additional weight. Try it also without looking at the QR, and also with your "weak" arm. I did it up to 105 kg.

In a first round of testing I noticed that the QR didn't work with the chicken loop.

In a second round I tired it with a ring. While testing, I had the feeling that I was not sure if I could mobilize the necessary power to release in an emergency situation. After 4 tries the snap shackle was unable to close, bend, unusable!

I tried the Wichard next just with the chicken loop and immediately felt that it was so much easier to release. Since then Wichard is a very good friend of mine...

Tests conducted by several magazines have shown that the Wichard is clearly superior to the new systems of Naish, Gaastra, Wipika, Takoon etc. The main difference in the tests was the power necessary to release the QR under pulling power of 100 or 200 kg as published by the German kite magazine.

Here are some data for a pulling power of 200 kg which show what kind of power you need to release the QR in such a situation:

Wichard 5 kg
Flysurfer 13 kg
Naish 15 kg (please note that you need to push the 15 kg away from you according to the system which is much more difficult than to pull)
Wipika 51 kg
Gaastra 73 kg

Here the data for a pulling power of 100 kg:

Wichard 3 kg
Flysurfer 5 kg
Naish 11 kg (please note that you need to push the 11kg away from you according to the system which is much more difficult than to pull)
Wipika 40 kg
Gaastra 40 kg

In a situation when your safety depends on being able to release the QR within a fraction of a second, you should not need more power than 5 kg to release the QR, I would say...

The test data confirm some of my own impressions and testing. And why should I compromise regarding safety systems or why should I guinee pig for the industry? That's why I feel better using Wichard...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wolfgang on 2003-01-22 21:44 ]</font>

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Postby KidKiteRock » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:11 pm

Rick,

I couldn't agree with you more about the side release shackels. I have pulled apart the Split ring on several of these under minimal load.
Not only will the side release shackle NOT release under increased load, the split rings will pull apart when extra pull in required to open them.
Grab your keys and pull on one, you will be surprised how little power it takes to straighten out the ring./
Dont bet life and limb on a $50-100 savings!

Philip
Kitesite.net

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Postby blizzard » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:39 pm

I used the snap shackle shown in Murdoc's post on the S2 Lockin Bar about 7 months ago. I had a problem was dragged along the beach for some time yanking away at the damn thing. It never release. Eventually I hit a bolder with my backside and crushed a vertebra and fractured my pelvis and wounding my bum. Under extreme tension they will fail and this is when you need it to work. Very dangerous and a sense of false security. I'm all better now thank god.

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Postby RickI » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:46 pm

Hello Blizzard,

I remember talking to you under another screen name in preparing the KSI account. That was one very severe, high speed, long distance dragging. I was startled to hear all the details. It is great that you are fully recovered and back at it! Well done!

Rick Iossi


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