Sensible LEI vs RAM discussion

[Rv]

On 2003-02-01 23:02, Pump me up wrote:
In reply to Rv,

RAMS DON'T handle lulls better.

Rams fall from the sky BEFORE 2003 inflatables in wind dropouts/lulls.

Ok, this is your experience, but in mine, flying Arcs (see, the Warrior is not the only foil) in light wind I am usually the first to stay upwind, and during lulls I have been the only kite the remains in the air, while all the LEIs get washed towards the shore.

[Mr Jo Macdonald]

Paul, watch it using a big 12-16m foil on land with a skateboard or mountainboard, you'll go very fast in very little wind and also get a ton of apparent wind obviously. Like Andreas said, he was using a 9.3 in very light stuff and still went really fast
Have fun
Jo

[taabsr]

On 2003-02-02 12:29, RC-Kiter wrote:
Pump me up, it seems like you really have a serious hate/disgust going on...

Anyway look at gallery.kiteforum.com and look in the Europe Album and then Portugal there are some nice pics of the Warrior 16.5m in very low winds. (5-6 knots)

There are some good threads on this forum on your asked subject like:
phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=4146&forum=1
&
phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=4096&forum=1

You can find very good info there also

in my gallery the one rc is talking about there is also a promo video that was made with 5knots mesured, Nobody start's to ride before i do here. I'm always the first on the water and ther r some big lei's around but they never seem to get the same performance. This kite is also one of the most stable i know. Try one and you will be amazed. I haven't tryed the titan but The psycho and warrior r 2 amazing kites.


these shots where taken in 10/2002 i started to kitesurf in 9/2002 so little experience.

video link:
http://gallery.kiteforum.com/albums/alb ... 5knots.wmv

Just decided to post this again.
also in taabsr and stru gallery there r fotos of us kitesurfing with the 9 and 12, on this photo's we had gusty wind and no problem at all




So Pump me up go learn how to fly a kite and then come back.

_________________
http://www.x-klam.com


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: taabsr on 2003-02-03 13:24 ]</font>

[PullStrings]

SAFETY
-Inflatables are superior.
-Ram airs are not safe for the following reasons:
1-In total wind dropouts or gear failure, ram airs cannot safely get you back to shore. Because of the inherent floatation of an inflatable you can at least use your kite for buoyancy. Because of the semi-rigid structure of a LEI, it is possible to grab the tips of the kite and "sail" the kite to shore in marginal wind conditions.
After 30min, ALL rams will be too waterlogged to enable relaunching or self rescue.
2- Rams need to be relaunched from the middle of the power zone, making for some hell-drags, esp near land.

3- Some of the worst kitemares I've seen have been by ram fliers preinflating their kites and getting blown downwind on land.

LIFT and HANGTIME
-Because of superior aerodymics and quicker turning speed, inflats are able to generate more LIFT and more hangtime. To verify this, check the scene at your local beach, results from hangtime comps, and freestyle comp results.

TURNING SPEED
-Inflatables have less inherent drag. The tips of the kites, far from being a hindrance, actually act as rudders to speed up turning speed. In addition, the semi -rigid structure of an inflatable enbales faster turning because the kite will not collapse inwards with pressure on the tips.

DEPOWER
- Similar in both types. Keep in mind though, that because rams exert more friction on the wind, they drag more, sit further back in the window, and can be much more difficult to depower at the top end.

LAUNCH
-Where I kitesurf on the Californian Coast, there is a large promontory. At high tide, inflatable riders will water-launch ie drag their kites into the waves, move from the shadow of the promontory, and launch. This is impossible for ram riders. I've seen a few of them struggle to pre-inflate at high tide, then give up.

RELAUNCH
-Relanching an inflatable is easy, especially for anyone who has put in over 20h using an inflatable.
-Rams need to be relaunched directly downwind - scary, unreliable, and dangerous.

QUALITY
- You get what you pay for, in both inflatables and rams. Having said that, read the posting on "Flysurfer Warriors Exploding."

PRICE
- Similar. The top line inflats are similar in price to the top line rams.

AREAS (water/snow/land)
-For the above reasons, inflatables are far superior on the water.
-There is no question that rams are superior on land and snow. The ability/necessity to relaunch directly downwind is a huge advantage on land/snow. The risk of bladder puncture is a lot higher on land - rams are better where there is a high likelihood of puncture (eg prickles, wire etc)

HANDLING IN GUSTS
-Rams are inferior in gusts, esp rotors, because they lack a semi-rigid structure.
-I've seen ram airs wine-glassing, collapsing into a ball and exploding in the middle of the powerzone - scary stuff.
-The semi-rigid structure of the inflatable prevents these weird rotor effects.
-Apart from that, the most important aspect for feel/handling in gusts is the position the kite sits in the window. Kites which sit further back in the window like a lot of 2003 inflatables and the Warrior (ram) feel "smoother", will move forward a bit (not excessively) with gusts, and fall backwards slightly with lulls. This is not a ram v inflat thing, it is more a general shape issue.

HANDLING IN THE AIR
-Inflats are more aerodynamic than rams, have inbuilt rudders (the tips), and are semi-rigid, all making for better all-round handling in the air.
-Apart from this, the most important thing for handling in the air is kite shape. An aero will handle in a completely different manner to a X10 because of length, width, chord, profile differences.

Overall, inflatables are superior to rams in every facet, which explains why all quality pro's use inflatables.

The things a recreational kiter looks for are also the things a pro looks for: control, stability, turning speed, jump height and hangtime.

Apart from this, the amateur rider also wants a hassle-free, easy to setup/packup, and easy to use kite. Inflats are superior to rams in these aspects too!

You got to hand it to PMU ....he does not give up easily...here's the proof.... all the way back from 2003.......13 years running !!.....

[pj sofine]

Dang,he's the yoda of kiteboarding.My already high level of awe has reached a new level! Bro-crush

[Pump me up]

Dang,he's the yoda of kiteboarding.My already high level of awe has reached a new level! Bro-crush

Thanks PJ and PS. Your support gives me the strength to keep going.

[Mossy 757]

There is no question that rams are superior...

You heard it here folks!!!

[PullStrings]

There is no question that rams are superior...at water logging...collapsing....bow tying..

You heard the truth here again folks !!!

I mOsS sAy .....ThAt qUoTe NoW SoUnDs SeNsIbLy bEtTeR