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Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

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downunder
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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby downunder » Tue May 17, 2016 9:31 am

Hi,

are you sure about the tension line? I suspect there is a Spectra or similar on many kites on a trailing edge. At least my Edge 2014 has one. This is well hidden from a naked eye's :)

Yes, this was the other question, are you using a heat iron, like a soldering gun to cut a fabric? Or this is only for nylon.

Cheers and thanks !

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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby PanTau » Tue May 17, 2016 11:47 pm

Hi,
a tension line in the trailing edge doesn't prevent the nylon from stretching. It's even worse since the nylon stretches and the line is pulling the sail down like the flaps on a wing. Always use fabrics with a similar stretch. From the same reason as you would not use carbon on your kiteboard to make your glass stronger.
I'm also using a tension line on my kites as you can see here:
Image Image
In combination with polyester it makes sense. The line makes the te slightly stiffer and also adds some strength when the kite crashes.

For a strutless kite I would always use a fabric that stretches as little as possible. Otherwise the canopy will get the shape of a parachute if you put some reasonable tension on the lines (e.g. jumps, launching out of deep water etc.). It may be OK on land with a buggy...

If you really want (or have to) use nylon then you should add some struts to control the shape of the profile.

As you can see from the pics I'm using a cutter for dacron and spinnaker.
The spinnaker usually doesn't fray if you tape the panels before you sew them. To seal the cuts of the open ends of the dacron I'm using an soldering iron. But not to cut them.
Image Image

Is it that difficult to find an old sewing machine that has the reverse option and a triple zz-stitch in downunder? Here you get them almost for free since nobody wants grandmothers old sewing machine...

btw: You can find some more pics of the ventus here http://www.wingworks.de/kites/ventus/ or in the sewing manual (german only) http://www.wingworks.de/bauanleitungen/ ... anleitung/

hth
PanTau
Last edited by PanTau on Wed May 18, 2016 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby downunder » Wed May 18, 2016 3:02 am

Thanks for your reply!

Very clean kite of yours, nice. Yeah, it's not that difficult to find, but not cheap either. The service is min. $170, so if anything not quite right...Pfaff is difficult to find. I think the reverse opt is not the show stopper, tho.

Cheers

D.

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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby PanTau » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:46 pm

And here is the plan of my single strut kite Ventus on Github: https://github.com/wingworks/Ventus-S

Image

Have fun! :bye:
Last edited by PanTau on Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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downunder
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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby downunder » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:12 am


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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby foilholio » Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:24 am

downunder wrote: @ foilholio, I could not fly this kite with a struts inflated coz the valves were all gone long time ago. I just replaced the main bladder valve (screw on) and removed completely the spare one, which Cab provided for pumps with no screw attachment. So, no, would be expensive to replace all valves on 10y years old Cab just to prove flying capabilities.
I see your point :-) do to town on it then.

I read somewhere that nylon shrinks when wet. My Pansh use nylon but is waterproofed with silicon rubber and I believe my Flysurfers use Polyester(Dacron) which is only waterproofed with Polyurethane on one side, crap. I haven't noticed much difference in the fabrics how they perform. They do feel different, but PU is much stiffer than silicone. I use PU coated nylon I buy off ebay for repairs it works well and is cheaper than polyester. Nylon is stronger than polyester so I guess the effects of water must have some merit. Otherwise why would the kite companies use a weaker and more expensive fabric? Maybe nylon stretches more?
PanTau wrote:Hi,
it's not a good idea to control the trailing edge tension by using a tension line. That doesn't work. You are are just bending it down. Fluttering will get a little less but drag will increase.
PanTau wrote:a tension line in the trailing edge doesn't prevent the nylon from stretching. It's even worse since the nylon stretches and the line is pulling the sail down like the flaps on a wing. Always use fabrics with a similar stretch. From the same reason as you would not use carbon on your kiteboard to make your glass stronger.
Leech lines do work. Only mentioned it because Greg said he used it on the cloud at some stage, they have been used on foil kites as well. Peterlynn Arcs use adjustable straps inside the kite. Cambering the airfoil like flaps when powered is actually very beneficial. You could use a sliding leech line in a relationship with a pulley and the front and rear lines to only tighten at a certain AOA giving increased lift then. I wonder if that has ever been tried.

If downunder wants to skip to the future I suggest he install a full TE bridle as most kites will eventually use them.

Downunder probably understands this well but things like carbon and glass are mixed, they have different desirable qualities, glass is harder with better wear and impact protection. Glass is actually stronger than carbon when you factor in it's ability to flex and absorb energy. Only problem is boards that flex that much will not work for kiting. The basis of all composites is the combining of different components usually to achieve something new and better. Resin, glass, foam, wood, carbon.

They way I look at straps and lines in the kite is as some sort of internal bridle. In the same way as external bridles they distribute the load across the kite in a way the fabric can not. You can make them out of fabric though, look at the ribs used on single skin kites like the Flysurfer Peaks. Foils often have fabric straps inside the kite too.

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Re: Board building? Nah...A kite! Aka Cloud

Postby downunder » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:17 am

Made a breakthrough yesterday, something small but important :) Found the reverse option on my machine, which I did not know it exists :)

Anyways, good read from here (and with a help of PanTau):

http://www.florianscharscher.com/2016/0 ... uring.html

Hopefully, getting all materials soon for my project!


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