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delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

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naishdude
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delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby naishdude » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:01 pm

hi guys,
have a 5'5 Airush compact Active
Active =
The Key to the Active Stringers Strength is the stiff and ultra lightweight carbon I-beam through the center of the board. This prevents the board from over flexing and damaging the laminate when flexing beyond the working range. The secret to the Active Technology flex is the high memory polypropylene layer, that allows the full bi-axial carbon skins to flex and compress within the working range. The combination gives a perfect blend of maximum flex, with maximum durability.

I found the following problem, in front of the rear pad and under the pad I can feel delamination, I can push in the skin( deck) at several placesand it flexes . I love this board, and do not want to loose it, can anybody give some advice on how at best to proceed in fixing this, given the memory polypropylen layer, the lightweight I beam stringer and bi-axial carbon skins

Thx
Dude :cool2:

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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby plummet » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:29 am

I'm loving the irony of "Naish Dude" flying switch kites and riding airush board. Not a naish in sight!... Hehehehe
didn't think through that forum name enough did you.

Pictures speak a thousand words.

The answer would be to slappo another couple of layers of carbon on the top.

I also wonder if you could drill a small hole and inject some expanding glue like gorilla grip to fill the void underneath the delammed piece. That could re-stick the foam and save you fully cutting into the deck and rebuilding it. Then the extra carbon layers will firm up the skin to stop the heal re-delamination.

norcom
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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby norcom » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:42 am

Had a soft deck on a windsurf board. No cracks but I could feel and hear the soft delam where the rear foot stance area was. I drilled a bunch of holes across the deck, injected urethane foam and then patched the holes with some fiberglass.

You can get lots of repair tips here: http://www.boardlady.com/injection.htm Though the board lady doesn't recommend injection as the perfect fix, it worked perfectly for me. Really depends on how much is delaminated and how much foam you can get under the skin. DO NOT inject epoxy, it wont do crap but fill the hole. the foam expands.

I used a heaver Urethane foam for the stance area. It doesn't expand as much as lighter weight foam but it becomes hard as a brick. I think I used the 8LB one from US Composites http://www.uscomposites.com/foam.html Good stuff.

This is a pretty basic procedure. If all you have is compressed foam from jumping hard on the board and no cracks then just inject some expanding foam, patch and ride. The extra foam will add weight though.

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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby naishdude » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:13 am

plummet wrote:I'm loving the irony of "Naish Dude" flying switch kites and riding airush board. Not a naish in sight!... Hehehehe
didn't think through that forum name enough did you.
:D ok here some history behind Naishdude name, when I was a windsurfer my boards were Naish boards, ...my first kite directional was a Naish strapped surf....
so now it might be clear to you..I carry that nick name for 39 years now...
thx for the advice :wink:
dude :cool2:

naishdude
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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby naishdude » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:23 am

@ Plummet and Norcom
Pictures...you will not see anything...there are no dents no cracks...only when you push you can see and feel it moving.
I am not a real jumper...but I purchased it as a second hand..it has been a demo board.

I have, want, to look into what Norcom adviced..that seems to me the best solution at the moment, I read the boardlady stuff before, as I 'd hoped for some more and other advice I adressed it here.

I will look into the foams possibilities. A pity I do not know of real good shapers around here, just incase that it might break to make me exactly the same board.
Before I purchased it, I tried to find some reviews but on this board there is nothing to find, I wrote AIrush , and they looked into their files and kindly answered me there have only been made 5 boards, 3 went to the UK and 2 USA.
the board is a gem and that is why I want to keep it, maybe try to find a shaper who can take all the measurments just in case it breaks and build me a new one...who knows.
Thx guys for trying to help me with this problem..

cheers Dude :cool2:

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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby rynhardt » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:45 am

naishdude wrote: The secret to the Active Technology flex is the high memory polypropylene layer, that allows the full bi-axial carbon skins to flex and compress within the working range.
The polypropylene layer is most likely your problem. It's a low surface energy plastic with known bonding issues. Typical approach on these is to use sanding and flame/corona treatment to increase the bonding strength, neither of which is an option in your case. You can try 3M DP8005, but it seems to be a bit of a design flaw - there's a good chance you can fix one part of the board but it will reappear at the next point of failure. There's probably a reason they only made a few of these boards.

naishdude
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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby naishdude » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:11 pm

thx Rynhart

does not give me high hopes...and honestly I was a bit thinking the same a cohesion problem due to the polypropylene that is right on top of the stringer...But they are still building boards in this way...
And it is not really on top of the stringer it is on the sides where the heels put pressure..and under the rear footpad..a friend of mine I contacted...will take it with him and open it, putting new foam and closing it again...
Have to wait til he is back in the country and hear what his opinion is on the subject...till now no breaks in the surface...

Thx
dude :cool2:

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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby Johnny Rotten » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:58 pm

"Soft deck" and delamination is the most common end to kiteboards.

If you do nothing this will normally progress to a rail crack, and a shit ton of water intrusion when that happens. If you have inserts it's highly probable it is already breathing water in that area. Drying a waterlogged EPS board really isn't that feasibile, you can get some water out but even vac bagging it over 3 days at 50C in a board oven the foam was still sopping wet.

I usually only see these in for repairs after the crack and water intrution at which point cutting off the deck chipping out the sopping wet EPS filling it in with 2-4lb density pour foam followed by reglassing the top is the only real option.

I'd try the foam injection....you got nothing to loose.

don't let ryan hardt's explanation make you give up. He's correct that epoxy doesn't bond well with many plastics but it's unlikely to have interply delamination this would take considerably higher forces than crushing/tearing debonding of the fiber foam interface.

I've played alot with various plastic fibers and they usually result in decreased buckling strength and good improvements to impact toughness.
If designed well they can make a very great board

naishdude
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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby naishdude » Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:04 pm

THX JR... Its not cracked up yet...so I let it be and use my other board, till it has been repaired.
The problem with the PU foam injection , is to my point of view a good one, but not that easy to controle, I fear.

He will cut it open at the places and see what is happening inside, then he will or cut out the foam and insert really hard foam in place and then close it up...
µThx to all
dude :cool2:

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Re: delamination Airush compact active carbon construction

Postby rynhardt » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:45 pm

Johnny Rotten wrote: I've played alot with various plastic fibers and they usually result in decreased buckling strength and good improvements to impact toughness.
If designed well they can make a very great board
Sorry, I was under the assumption this was a flat sheet of polypropylene, not a fibre matrix.


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