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Small kites jump higher? Nope!

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mr_daruman
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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby mr_daruman » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:11 pm

For me , while riding triming the kite = it's time to change kite...I like to keep things at the best possible sweet spot. Trimming is nice when conditions suddenly change, extremely unstable winds (in that case i'd rather not ride) and of course launching&landing.

Big kites a super for Airstyle in strong wind but thats all.
I'd rather be on smaller size for a variety of riding styles. Boost some descent air grabs, hit a few unhooked pop&pass, ride off to the horizon into some 6 footer kickers, come back megalooping :) :jump:

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s1buell_wl
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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby s1buell_wl » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:25 pm

LOL

I would go with "stirring the pot" for sure!!!!

As soon as I seen the post I thought…. oh shit the gullible will jump at this bate!

Toby the real question here is

1. Did you see the top of his canopy?
2. Where are the Pictures!
3. No pictures... Well your just talking smack :rollgrin:

Only things that matter.

I know your 18m was changing shape for sure (did the front lines start to sing?)! I hope you had a new harness on :rollgrin:

cheers
T

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bay surfer
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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby bay surfer » Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:58 pm

I'm with Toby go big and go high (gentle Giants) smaller kites are the ones I always hurt myself with!

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Toby
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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby Toby » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:43 pm

shape stayed, more or less new harness, and can take few knots more.
Would love to hit a 30 kn gusts just before liftoff ;-)
But then I need my own lagoon :naughty:

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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby edt » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:21 am

romkite wrote: 35*35*7=8575
25*25*18=11250
That is, 31% more power on the 18 m.
romkite that is only correct to calculate the pull of the kite. But in order to find the kinetic energy it is 1/2 mv^2, where v is not your speed in relation to the water but your speed in relation to the wind. If you want to convert that to height you find potential energy mgh and then the m term drops out. The kinetic energy is proportional to 35^2/25^2 which is 1.96 or almost exactly twice as much. Kinetic energy does not depend on kite size. I know it's weird but that's how it works.

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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby romkite » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:42 am

edt wrote:
romkite wrote: 35*35*7=8575
25*25*18=11250
That is, 31% more power on the 18 m.
romkite that is only correct to calculate the pull of the kite. But in order to find the kinetic energy it is 1/2 mv^2, where v is not your speed in relation to the water but your speed in relation to the wind. If you want to convert that to height you find potential energy mgh and then the m term drops out. The kinetic energy is proportional to 35^2/25^2 which is 1.96 or almost exactly twice as much. Kinetic energy does not depend on kite size. I know it's weird but that's how it works.
I think I get your point about the faster you go the more you can hurt yourself. But I don't understand what kinetic energy you are talking about and what's your "speed in relation to the wind" ... If it's the kinetic energy of the kite surfer hitting the parking lot after a KL throwing him straigth downwind at wind speed, then "v" is simply speed over ground (SOG), if we pretend it's purely horizontal to keep it simple. In this case the kinetic energy of the kite surfer is about twice as much in 35 than it would be in 25 kts, whatever the kite size, nothing weird, totally agree on that. But you totally lost me in your explanation so I might have missed the point ...

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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby plummet » Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:48 am

romkite wrote:
edt wrote:
romkite wrote: 35*35*7=8575
25*25*18=11250
That is, 31% more power on the 18 m.
romkite that is only correct to calculate the pull of the kite. But in order to find the kinetic energy it is 1/2 mv^2, where v is not your speed in relation to the water but your speed in relation to the wind. If you want to convert that to height you find potential energy mgh and then the m term drops out. The kinetic energy is proportional to 35^2/25^2 which is 1.96 or almost exactly twice as much. Kinetic energy does not depend on kite size. I know it's weird but that's how it works.
I think I get your point about the faster you go the more you can hurt yourself. But I don't understand what kinetic energy you are talking about and what's your "speed in relation to the wind" ... If it's the kinetic energy of the kite surfer hitting the parking lot after a KL throwing him straigth downwind at wind speed, then "v" is simply speed over ground (SOG), if we pretend it's purely horizontal to keep it simple. In this case the kinetic energy of the kite surfer is about twice as much in 35 than it would be in 25 kts, whatever the kite size, nothing weird, totally agree on that. But you totally lost me in your explanation so I might have missed the point ...

Yeah i'm not sold on this 1/2 mv^2 formula as an accurate way for assessing how high a kiter can jump. It is simply saying if you go x fast then you can pendulum to x height. It does not take into account the amount of additional lift the kite provides over and above the pendulum motion.

In short I think its to basic and not an accurate representation of real life.

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s1buell_wl
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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby s1buell_wl » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:58 pm

Real life formula

Factor in:
1. Guy in strange ripped up harness from Germany (parasitic drag)
2. Big kite with strange stressed out shape (producing lift in all the wrong places)
3. Operator is hungover and trying to smile for the camera
4. Trying to jump his highest to impress the chick flying the small kite

Math just does not work well in this environment but its a reference point.

cheers
T

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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby Toby » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:29 pm

Real life is like that:

1. can happen
2. nope, works perfectly as designed
3. always smiling never drunk
4. no need for that in Brazil ;-)

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Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!

Postby edt » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:49 pm

you got it romkite. speed over ground after a kiteloop into the parking lot will just be wind speed and 35 knots has twice the kinetic energy as 25 that's basically my point kite size doesn't really matter in this case.


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