Flysurfer sonic vs north rebel in big size for airstyle

[Toby]

The lift comes from the Sonic since it is in zenith and he pulls on the bar. As said, it has a great lift.
Then on the wind window where you need some power to get going it doesn't produce it.

You can turn the Sonic on one point, but it doesn't create power. Not possible with a bigger tube, but when it turns tighter it produces power. Plus, it cannot collapse in this situation, which also can kill the power.

[lukash-kite4fun]

What is the different point between inflatable kite and foil in big size for the airstyle. The good and bad points of each. Let's compare between the best on each side as sonic and rebel for example.
Wait to read you guys.
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What wrote Toby is correct. I know foil kites for 6years and for me it is the best choice. Foil kites have ideal aerodynamics. You have bigger depower, so you have bigger lift and much better hangtime! BUT you need to know how to work with foils.

SONIC vs SPEED5 - I have a lot of question on this topic. Now I recommend SPEED5 - kite is much better like user friendly with similary power, control and relaunch. SONIC is priority for RACE with better performance BUT if you do mistake you will pay for this… You HAVE TO know what you do!
I am profesional with foil kites. I used before Speed 3, Speed Lotus and when I change these kites for Sonic I had to learn how Sonic works in jump, kiteloops, transitions… maybe after 10 sessions I was best friend with Sonic in airstyle Now I know this kite and for me the best choice is SONIC

BOOST2 15m and 18m
I recommend to try this kite - if you dont want foil - these kites are developed for airstyle! You will have a big depower - and depower is nice again for lift and hangtime. Kites are amazing in relauch. Who tried BOOST2 and compare with REBEL - they say. nice feeling on the bar, better relaunch, turning speed for kiteloop, bigger size (bigger hangtime) and better kick to lift. I can not say anything about this, because I didnt tried REBEL…

Microloop is in developing, we would like to come with microloop in next generation control bar

Toby wrote:
Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).
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It depend how you control your kite - you can have constant power, but I dont like it. (I have 70kg and I used mostly 15m Sonic) I control power - for example - I dont want power now in turning to kiteloop and after few second I want. I can turn on same place kite without power and then send kite to power zone. All tricks in videos are done land and ride away, but its true its different that with tube kites.

[stansxm]

It depend how you control your kite - you can have constant power, but I dont like it. (I have 70kg and I used mostly 15m Sonic) I control power - for example - I dont want power now in turning to kiteloop and after few second I want. I can turn on same place kite without power and then send kite to power zone. All tricks in videos are done land and ride away, but its true its different that with tube kites.

Can you give me some tips to kiteloop my sonic after a slide transition (jesus walk, foot slide, etc) in high wind without generating too much power please. Thank you for it as its my only dark point with the sonic. All the rest, jump, ride, etc....is just a pure dream.

[plummet]

What is the different point between inflatable kite and foil in big size for the airstyle. The good and bad points of each. Let's compare between the best on each side as sonic and rebel for example.
Wait to read you guys.
---------------------------
What wrote Toby is correct. I know foil kites for 6years and for me it is the best choice. Foil kites have ideal aerodynamics. You have bigger depower, so you have bigger lift and much better hangtime! BUT you need to know how to work with foils.

SONIC vs SPEED5 - I have a lot of question on this topic. Now I recommend SPEED5 - kite is much better like user friendly with similary power, control and relaunch. SONIC is priority for RACE with better performance BUT if you do mistake you will pay for this… You HAVE TO know what you do!
I am profesional with foil kites. I used before Speed 3, Speed Lotus and when I change these kites for Sonic I had to learn how Sonic works in jump, kiteloops, transitions… maybe after 10 sessions I was best friend with Sonic in airstyle Now I know this kite and for me the best choice is SONIC

BOOST2 15m and 18m
I recommend to try this kite - if you dont want foil - these kites are developed for airstyle! You will have a big depower - and depower is nice again for lift and hangtime. Kites are amazing in relauch. Who tried BOOST2 and compare with REBEL - they say. nice feeling on the bar, better relaunch, turning speed for kiteloop, bigger size (bigger hangtime) and better kick to lift. I can not say anything about this, because I didnt tried REBEL…

Microloop is in developing, we would like to come with microloop in next generation control bar

Toby wrote:
Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).
---------------------------

It depend how you control your kite - you can have constant power, but I dont like it. (I have 70kg and I used mostly 15m Sonic) I control power - for example - I dont want power now in turning to kiteloop and after few second I want. I can turn on same place kite without power and then send kite to power zone. All tricks in videos are done land and ride away, but its true its different that with tube kites.

Excellent Review Lukash. I agree with your thoughts. The high aspect race foils give you extra precision with their greater ability to control stall and power. It makes them a great active flyers kite. If you want the ability to stall the kite/speed it up, come hot then slow to a snails pace on landing then huge aoa is great for that. But as you state if you fly the kite incorrectly you pay for the mistake!... The speeds are far easier to fly and don't punish mistakes as readily.

I also agree with Tobys review that foil kites have less consistant power than lei's. They power up and loose power more readily depending on how you fly them. Those features give you greater control than a more constantly powered lei if you know how to fly it affectively. But you certainly can fly them "ham fisted" as you can lei's.

I also think you slow down more in the jump with a foil. You come in a lot slower forward speed than if you used a similar sized lei. Perhaps its the parasitic drag in the Bridles? I'm not sure. The feature taking off fast and landing slow is great for land kiting. It means you can do a stupid jump at stupid speed and height and come in landing buttery smooth and slow so you don't break anything if you stuff the landing up. Amusingly I prefer how a Lei jumps on the water. Typically I want more forward speed on landing and the lei gives that in buckets if you want it.

[Zkatez]

What is the different point between inflatable kite and foil in big size for the airstyle. The good and bad points of each. Let's compare between the best on each side as sonic and rebel for example.
Wait to read you guys.
---------------------------


Toby wrote:
Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).
---------------------------

It depend how you control your kite - you can have constant power, but I dont like it. (I have 70kg and I used mostly 15m Sonic) I control power - for example - I dont want power now in turning to kiteloop and after few second I want. I can turn on same place kite without power and then send kite to power zone. All tricks in videos are done land and ride away, but its true its different that with tube kites.

Hi All,
Interesting topic for me, since I am flying the Sonic now, and me too, am adjusting to the difference. I am happy with the Sonic, the extra performance and for me a lot bigger useable windrange. Indeed, the lack of constant power during the turn and therefor the kiteloop during walks and slides need to be timed precise. I am just starting to get it right. Making the slide/float/walk longer seems to help (which is a bonus of course). Might also have been due to my longer lines I was trying.

But I am open for tips and I don't understand how you, Lukash, can turn on/off the power "during" a kiteloop? I think you and Plummet are referring to making the kite "overturn". In which you make it turn very short, lose all speed and power. I use that sometimes when things go wrong and don't want to be dragged for 20 sec. But, I don't see myself doing that, during a loop, with one hand on the bar, sametime getting my board, sliding and making 1 or 2 backrolls. Can you? Please tell me how, or what it is what you do. I would very much like to know. I can see you, yanking the bar quit a bit, for making the kite turn and getting power.

[plummet]

What is the different point between inflatable kite and foil in big size for the airstyle. The good and bad points of each. Let's compare between the best on each side as sonic and rebel for example.
Wait to read you guys.
---------------------------


Toby wrote:
Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).
---------------------------

It depend how you control your kite - you can have constant power, but I dont like it. (I have 70kg and I used mostly 15m Sonic) I control power - for example - I dont want power now in turning to kiteloop and after few second I want. I can turn on same place kite without power and then send kite to power zone. All tricks in videos are done land and ride away, but its true its different that with tube kites.

Hi All,
Interesting topic for me, since I am flying the Sonic now, and me too, am adjusting to the difference. I am happy with the Sonic, the extra performance and for me a lot bigger useable windrange. Indeed, the lack of constant power during the turn and therefor the kiteloop during walks and slides need to be timed precise. I am just starting to get it right. Making the slide/float/walk longer seems to help (which is a bonus of course). Might also have been due to my longer lines I was trying.

But I am open for tips and I don't understand how you, Lukash, can turn on/off the power "during" a kiteloop? I think you and Plummet are referring to making the kite "overturn". In which you make it turn very short, lose all speed and power. I use that sometimes when things go wrong and don't want to be dragged for 20 sec. But, I don't see myself doing that, during a loop, with one hand on the bar, sametime getting my board, sliding and making 1 or 2 backrolls. Can you? Please tell me how, or what it is what you do. I would very much like to know. I can see you, yanking the bar quit a bit, for making the kite turn and getting power.

Loosing power through a loop is a function of too much bar pressure. They way my kite is set up, bellow half bar in I can loop/turn without loosing power. It will do a smooth wide powered looped. If I go past half bar in then I can get the kite starting to back stall and pivot turn. The looses power in the turn. But gives you the advantage of stall control. The distadvantage for airstylers is that you to more actively fly the kite to get sweet landings. Fly a big nasty lei and you no longer have the pivot turn/stall control. But you do have a kite that you can dangle underneath and land easily without precise kite control

[Toby]

I am sure my Rebel has way more bar pressure than the Sonic.

For Airstyle you need kite control. too far behind and too far forward will make you crash.

Dangling? Possible on any kite. The goal of Airstyle is not to dangle...use your time til the landing with a grab or body tension.

[foilholio]

Foils are generally harder to use but higher performance. Power thru the turn is how you use it. Foils can throw half the wing into stall or reverse flight if you over steer them. I have found the sonics generate great power flying them. I wonder if a WAC line would help make airstyle easier on foils giving them more lift, bar pressure, powered turns and much harder to stall. yes I said more lift. I actually think inflatables have better lift than foils, foils have better lift to drag. Depends though mods like WAC or Diablo line or and changing the tune on foils feels like they can be better or at least even with inflatables.

[plummet]

I am sure my Rebel has way more bar pressure than the Sonic.

For Airstyle you need kite control. too far behind and too far forward will make you crash.

Dangling? Possible on any kite. The goal of Airstyle is not to dangle...use your time til the landing with a grab or body tension.

But you purposefully look for a slow lumbering kite that is very slow to react to input so you can dangle beneath it without worrying about what the kite is doing. So a kite that requires precise control to land properly is not what you look for.

PS I guess our terminology is different. In my mind you if you are not actively flying the kite you are dangling beneath it. So even if you are doing all sorts of airstyle moves its still dangling.

[Toby]

It's hanging. Hangtime. Dangling is uncontrolled