Flysurfer sonic vs north rebel in big size for airstyle

[stansxm]

Hey guys,I love airstyle (I consider myself as an absolute beginner compare to Toby or lukash, etc).I used to ride inflatable kite the first ten years then I discovered the speed from flysurfer and found in love with. Then now the sonic, which is a real progress from the speed series. I remember that long time ago I had some cabrinha switch blade 16m ,this kite was pulling so hard on the bar. Tennis elbow all the time. Then the flysurfer was pulling only on the front line, on the harness. So soft on the bar that was one of the reasons I changed for foil kite in big size.
But nowadays we are in 2016 and guys like Toby are so impressive with the north kite. And I want to stay open mind.
I know that Toby tried flysurfer.
So to the airstyle crazy folks here is my question. .
What is the different point between inflatable kite and foil in big size for the airstyle. The good and bad points of each. Let's compare between the best on each side as sonic and rebel for example.
Wait to read you guys.

[Toby]

You will win here, and loose there.

Tube and foil both have their advantages and disadvantages.

The Sonic is an excellent kite for lift and hangtime. Yes, foils are lighter on the bar which is a big plus for your arm. I currently suffer arm problems myself...

On the other side the pressure on the bar helps to know where the kite is and to dose the right power e.g. for Jesus Walks to stay just above surface.
And you can feel better where your kite is going to...very important for tricks with rotations, so the kite isn't too far forward which can lead to a big crash.

Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).

The new Rebel is ok...16 has a good hangtime, but I didn't like the lift. I still have my 18 from 2015, which for me is great with 32m lines.
But for sure the Sonic jumps much better than the Rebel.

Would be interesting if someone could compare to the Slingshot Turbine and the new Boost 18. Didn't try those. Hope to get my hands on it end of August at the worldcup in Germany which also has the biggest testival attached. If you live close, highly recommended to go and test all the gear yourself.

Please remember, a microloop will make things much easier and will get you on another level. A stopper is ok, but microloop is the best. So if you want to advance, you also need to look at this...but I think should be no problem to change from a FS bar to an older North bar (2009-2012).

I hope it helps!

[plummet]

Though the real high aspect foils like sonic and R1, chrono v1 ect have great lift they need to be flown actively throughout the jump. By design they have huge aoa adjustment and you stall them mid jump if need be. So they are more a kite flyers kite than a tricksters kite. I think if you want to airstyle on a foil you would be better looking at speed5 for chrono v2. They will have wicked hang with less requirement of active kite flying through the jump.

[Toby]

Lukash prefers the Sonic. And he is doing well with it, progressing quiet a lot.

[stansxm]

I didn't try the speed 5 yet, but I know the speed 3 and 4 very well and I prefer the sonic so far. This kite is not as easy as the speed series and certainly more for foil experimented riders. What I consider to be.

[joriws]

Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).

Which video you are referring to? In best airstyle 2015 video how I see Lukash does not even turn the Sonic until last moment based on viewing bar-frontlines T-shape. Naturally power is dropped but it is rider selection not kite issue. Sometimes Lukash has bar very forward etc.

Do you have exact clip and second marker you have on your mind?

In earlier Egypt airstyle video by Lukash goes in transitions/jumps much higher than you do. Much more powerful looking airstyle IMO. On B-off transitions you barely get lifted in kiteloop to put board on.

[Toby]

Need to check again, just remembered this. But I also saw it live several times.

Any transition can normally be higher...just do a jump and just redirect the kite. Did you see all of my transitions on the DVD?

Mostly the transitions are not done with kiteloop, rather with a redirect.
But sure, possible, also with downloop.

[Toby]

Another plus for tube is the constant power when turning the kite, like for transitions. Look at Lukash videos and see where he looses the power (but he also cut the video at this point).

Do you have exact clip and second marker you have on your mind?

In earlier Egypt airstyle video by Lukash goes in transitions/jumps much higher than you do. Much more powerful looking airstyle IMO. On B-off transitions you barely get lifted in kiteloop to put board on.

1:05
1:11
1:16
1:20
1:30
1:56

You might not see it because it is cut, but I know how it goes on. I have that experience plus I saw all the tricks he filmed in Ras Sudr live.

https://vimeo.com/160711676

[Strekke]

Damn that trick at 1:23 is sick

[joriws]

Well those were the same clips I was thinking Toby was thinking, all can see that at touchdown the speed is not high but did he ride away? What I stated exactly on these tricks in my mind the Sonic is not turned at all or very minor pull on the bar, analyze touchdown minus five to one seconds. At site when watching live did you even check the redirection timing when jumping to conclusions that Sonic does not produce force when turn?

Many of the above clips are also on Ras Sudr airstyle hangout 2015 -video where we can directly compare bar yank (timing & amount) between Lukash and Toby. And I guess the weather/wind is about the same between riders. I like more the tricks after slide for example you are lifted well to put board on feet before touchdown.