Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Forum for all hooked tricks


foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:49 pm

Foils make more power when you turn them too. The foils and tubes you are comparing, have very different shapes. They will turn and behave different just because of that, without factoring other things in.

How could anyone prefer a pump? The pump is a big factor that makes pump kites bad for me.

kiterocky
Frequent Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:25 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Montpellier
Gear: Wipika
Brand Affiliation: Wipika

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby kiterocky » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:30 am

Yes its unbelivable the 96% of kiters prefer the pump...how its possibile..probably they all wrong..in fact hadlow cozzolino and Toby they will switch to foil next year to improve their level..

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby foilholio » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:12 am

I think you missed the point. It was about the pump device itself, not the kites. People use tube kites because they are easier. Bit hard to accept that fact I know. The majority ride the easier kites. Ferraris are not for everyone.

kiterocky
Frequent Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:25 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Montpellier
Gear: Wipika
Brand Affiliation: Wipika

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby kiterocky » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:52 am

Probably Cozzolino and hadlow or lenten are not able to ride Ferrari too...? Thats why they use pump..are more Easy for their low level...maybe in the future they Will improve and use some foil super performance kite.. :jump:

User avatar
Toby
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 37797
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Cumbuco, Brazil
Barra do Cauipe, Brazil
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Rebel 2015 18
Brand Affiliation: None.
Location: World (KF Admin)
Contact:

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby Toby » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:29 am

foilholio wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:12 am
I think you missed the point. It was about the pump device itself, not the kites. People use tube kites because they are easier. Bit hard to accept that fact I know. The majority ride the easier kites. Ferraris are not for everyone.
Are you on that level that you know what it takes to land such tricks for the riders you mentioned?

tmcfarla
Frequent Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:35 am

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby tmcfarla » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:49 pm

joriws wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:11 pm
Toby wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:05 pm
Also depends if you have space on your local beach or if it dangerous.
Foil needs a bit more space IMO.
I've different claim. Foil kite does not need beach at all. Enter water, unroll the kite and launch. And land kite to water
Foil kites need large, clean beaches. Sure, you can land them in the water, but then you have to deal with draining and drying the kite, and it sucks. Inflatable is infinitely more convenient on small beach- tether launch or drift launch, land it dry on a pile of sticks, go home. Foil kites are great and wonderful, but saying they work for small beaches is like saying that unicycles work for commuting- it is technically true, but there are better options.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby foilholio » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:40 pm

Toby wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:29 am
Are you on that level that you know what it takes to land such tricks for the riders you mentioned?
I personally know what it takes to land what are considered advanced tricks and they are easier on tubes. If advanced rider choose foil over tube he may then have more trouble doing trick to the same level. That is because tube kites are easier.

If your average driver tried to drive a F1 to the shops he would have a hell of a time. Most likely wreck the thing on the first speed bump. An F1 driver could do it. Both F1 and average driver would do better in an average sedan driving to the shops. F1 driver could probably drive the whole way on 2 wheels. Does the fact the F1 driver can do fancy tricks with sedan make the F1 car inferior? or just hard to do said tricks?

It's a funny thing brands push that their Pros are on their gear or certain models or types of kites because they need them. Reality is pros can do well on anything. This is well known to many, except new users and the inexperienced. Certain styles for instance wakestyle, are just fine on foil kites particularly in lightwind. The complications of foils getting tangled etc are where just some of the problems exist. Most other things suffer from the poor response, slow turn, vague feel and inertia of a foil.

The line is not clear cut. Foil is superior to tube in so many ways, particularly if you learn to handle their difficulties they are I feel a much more fun experience. Being able to get on the water quickly with little hassle I think is their main benefit. Having little difference in setup between a 6m and 18m is amazing. Durability and versatility are also outstanding. No bladders of valve problems. Hot cars not an issue. Self launching and landing in any wind no issue. Deathloops? What are those? Safety is outstanding, kite stays down very easy, especially if wet. Float, jump height, low end all the best. No hindenberging, an amazing ability to float on slack lines. You can actually surf with no line tension and do proper cut backs.

There is plenty of tube kites these days I think are great and I love riding with them. The whole experience of owning them is another matter. Just having to pump the kite is well frustrating. Enter any bladder issues and it doesn't surprise me this is a niche sport, especially with the stupid prices the big brands put on things.
tmcfarla wrote: Foil kites need large, clean beaches. Sure, you can land them in the water, but then you have to deal with draining and drying the kite, and it sucks. Inflatable is infinitely more convenient on small beach- tether launch or drift launch, land it dry on a pile of sticks, go home. Foil kites are great and wonderful, but saying they work for small beaches is like saying that unicycles work for commuting- it is technically true, but there are better options.
Sorry but you are just wrong. Clean large space is ideal but not needed. You can launch from bag on the water, standing or swimming. You can not really pump a tube on the water. You do not need to dry salt wet kites immediately or even for many weeks. You can actually land and pack foil kites mostly in the air. I would imagine tubes have more issues with sticks than foils. Yes you can tangle bridles but a hole in the tube is a bigger pain.

kiterocky
Frequent Poster
Posts: 463
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:25 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Montpellier
Gear: Wipika
Brand Affiliation: Wipika

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby kiterocky » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:10 pm

:bye: :bye: I think u are trolling us with foil things ... :jump: :jump:
The pro rider are chosing the pump kite not becouse they are easier but becouse they are better... :D :D foil kite improve a lot in the last few years but they are more oriented in race development .. flysurfer and ozone freestyle wave prorider are chosing only pump becouse more specific..please stop say stupid things.. :D :D if u like foil for freeriding its ok but stay real

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby foilholio » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:10 am

No I am not intentionally trolling you. I am speaking my opinion. It differs because my experience differs. It is confronting to face things about foils are better than tubes. There is also many things about tubes that are better than foils. The thing is how is each kite better? The things about a tube tend to make them easier to fly. The things about foils tend to make them easier to own but harder to fly. Tricks on a tube are much easier because the kites are easier. Tubes generally are easier in tricks that involve active flying of the kite, loops etc. Foils are better in any other metric of performance, power, lift, hangtime, upwind, range. Their basic nature makes them harder to fly. They are soft and can collapse especially in turbulence. The feel is vague to them . Much of their short comings can be overcome with experience and skill. They still need more rider attention, and that attention is diverted from elsewhere making other things much harder. There is situation though where a foil kite is easier to fly or the same as a tube.

Yes most development on foils has been in the Race kites. Foils have shown one of their advantages there. It is hard to argue when foil kite is first (Ken Winner tried though lol sorry toby). As to Airstyle I think the race foil is well suited if you are chasing height or hangtime, especially in light wind. I would also say a hydrofoil is becoming a must, given how high they can get in such light winds. It will certainly add more extremeness to the sport, maybe too much for some though.

Another way to look at the foil vs tube thing is strapless vs straps. Do strapless riders prefer strapless because it's easier? or harder and opens new possibilities?

Well foil kites are harder and open new possibilities.

I will also comment it is funny the direction you are coming from. You are using North pros to try win an argument. There must be some logical fallacy in there somewhere. Maybe the kite fallacy lol. Anyway it is curious the attacks on foils from the North direction, their designers and riders. Strange why they have such a problem with them?

An interesting thing is watching all the kiters who have now switched to foils, for their race performance, are now switching for other kite styles to them and have recognized that foils have other advantages. It's not every kiter, but it is nice for me to have some confirmation in my long held feelings for foil kites, that they are fun to own and use. Which for me is my biggest metric on gear, does it make me enjoy kiting more or less. After all I kite because I enjoy it.

Bossstyle
Medium Poster
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:38 pm
Kiting since: 10
Local Beach: Portland
Style: Freeride
Gear: F-one bandit 11m 2018
F-one bandit 9m 2018
F-one Mitu pro surf board
Flyradical 5 twin tip
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: When to go for a tube vs. for a foil kite for Airstyle

Postby Bossstyle » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:09 pm

I think the soul kite could be a game changer for kiting it looks like they are getting closer to the Lei handling on a foil and for me certainly looks impressive and intriguing. I really want a soul for lighter winds now and to try more airstyle stuff and get out in lighter winds and spend more time on the water. I am sure a lot to do with why people ride mainly tubes is down to price. The soul looks awesome but the price is crazy I dare say that is the only aspect that stops more people owning them. If they did more sales and promotions I think there market share would definitely increase but perhaps they like being a niche market?


Return to “Airstyle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron