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lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

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ragzilla
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lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby ragzilla » Tue May 03, 2016 1:34 pm

*** before you have your smart arse answers, lets get a few things clear**
ive started riding about 9months ago.
i dont have a huge amount of experience, but im a quick learner, im super keen to ride, and im pretty confident in my ability.....
think im ultimately heading into the wakestyle riding.

i dunno much about kite, atleast not yet. im trying to learn....... but what i am really good at is hitting the water with sub-par gear, and riding twice as hard as everybody else on the water............. first on & last off the water and smiling the whole time.

so.........
i started riding with a quiver of 09 revs.....(f!@#ing great kites by the way...... so glad i bought them)
now after 9months the kites are pretty thrashed and it was time to replace them.
i hunted around for something new, and in the end i went with 2015 slingy fuels. (lets face it, they've been made for 13+ years, so something in the formula works)
admittedly, i did buy them thinking that i could get used to the 2015 nitro bridle, and once used to the kite i could de-bridle them.
( in the end the kite sucked with a bridle, so i took it off after its first flight)

there a lot to get used to with such different flying characteristics.
i am still riding them hard, and i love flying them....... but being still so new to c-kites i think im flying them incorrectly.

after talking to a few fellow riders ive been told that c-kites deff need to be flown different from regular SLE & bow kites.

so lets talk about this!

i think i have a tendancy to over sheet .
is it just me or do i less power when i sheet in?
i swear it feels like i get more power at half sheeting.

are there any tips to flying these pure -c kites??

how do you ride your c-kites differently to your bow & SLE ??

what tips do you have for anybody who has jumped onto his first c-kites??

i appreciate any help people.
i did actually ask for some help on another kite forum and i got totally berated and insulted because im not experienced riding c-kites.
dunno what person gets a buzz outta giving sh** to a person trying to learn, but whatever floats your boat i guess.


again.... appreciate any help!!

windrider1
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby windrider1 » Tue May 03, 2016 2:05 pm

May be youre just stalling the kite which means back lines are a little too tight when u pull in the bar, or maybe the kite was not designed to be flown without the bridles. a lot of testing goes into designing a kite and sometimes our well intended mods mess it up. I started on c kites and they were ok at the time but dangerous as they didn't depower like todays kites and safety systems were lacking. Most kites perform better with a little slack in the back line as it allows the kite to move faster through the window thereby generating more power and also helps with going upwind.Some kites are very sensitive to too much back line while others its not a problem.

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edt
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby edt » Tue May 03, 2016 2:05 pm

fuels should almost never over sheet. if you are running them in unbridled mode you should notice that the amount of throw you get is something like 6 inches? something like that. If you throw the bar out more than 6 inches the kite doesn't really depower too much more, the kite is flying entirely on the front 2 lines and so if you release even more tension on the rear lines well if the line already slack then it doesn't really do anything. Also if you sheet in too much, suppose for instance you haven't tuned your bar correctly and the rear lines are shorter than your center lines. If this happens the kite will squeeze inwards but most of the time it will actually keep flying in the air. If you tried that on a bridled kite it would immediately be choked and fly backwards or crash.

When the kite is in the sweet spot and you are mowing the grass it will feel almost exactly like a bridled kite, though you should notice it pulls downwind just a bit more than a bridled kite.

If you are having problems with the kite first of all check your control bar and tune it. Make sure all 4 lines are exactly equal in length.

You will feel like you have to use a kite that is 1 or 2 meters bigger than the bridled kites when you have a fuel.

The lack of depower is the first thing people notice when they ride fuels unless you use the bridle.

The best two things about riding C kites are how strong they yank you on a kiteloop and how good the pop is unhooked. The fuel is not known for being a maximum jumper though I think if you want to jump high you are better off on some other bridled kite.

first things first tune your bar.

ragzilla
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby ragzilla » Tue May 03, 2016 2:48 pm

bar is 100% tuned.
ive got a brand new gaastra bar and a used compstick (still in sweet condition)......

admittedly, im not an expert, but bar & lines are deff tuned to same length.


deff feel like sometimes the kite feels a bit small. ive found this mostly riding upwind with my kite towards the edge of the window.
im gunna say common sense , its because of the c-shape which gives less canopy area as the kite flies further out the window.
deff feels like i have to fly the kite much further back into the window for riding upwind.

i actually bought the Fuel because Im trying to learn kiteloops. ive landed a few onto my arse, but nothing super clean yet. not bad for 9 months riding me thinks.
im 120kg (260lb) so most of my kites are big..... i comfortably ride my 11m fuel in 28knots yestersday...... so coz of riding big kites i wanted something thats super fast and powerful and a looping machine!! .... thnk i would get RPMs' for anything smaller than 11m.

my lack of kite experience i think will work to my advantage eventually........ i will just get used to riding pure-C ...... guess i dont really know much else.

forget about my bar..... its sweet..... im riding the fuels as best as i can and im not complaining about how they perform....... but time and time i keep hearing that pure C-kites need to be flown and rode a little different to to bridled C , SLE and bow kites.....

so explain to me how I ride them different.
what do i need to do to get the absolute most out of my fuels??

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Starsky
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby Starsky » Tue May 03, 2016 2:50 pm

Pretty good points so far.

You will learn to both eyeball and feel when the kite is properly trimmed. Oversheeting is absolutely possible, though the kite will continue to fly forward just with less power. That is one of their greatest strength. The ability to handle being so oversheeted yet still fly forward. That's what lets you unhook without having to trim the kite in first. With a C kite you will get a more consistent pop and the kite is far less likely to back stall before you can get it hooked back in and let off the bar. Still, for most of your riding you don't want em sheeted in to the max. You should feel like the kite pulls best when you just begin to see the wing tips flaring. Sheet all the way in and you should see the wingtips really flared. This gives a moment of high power if your riding fast, but it soon slows the kite and kills some power. The kite will back up in the window and keep trucking along, but it has less power and pulls more downwind.

When you develop a feel for that sweet spot (should be at the spot you have another inch or two to pull the bar all the way in) you will also notice you ability to go upwind improves. Kite forward in the window is always better upwind angle. Give it a little time and you will develop the feel for how much bar pressure Vs board edge works best.

C kites definitely equate 1-2 m smaller than most bridled kites.
Last edited by Starsky on Tue May 03, 2016 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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edt
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby edt » Tue May 03, 2016 2:55 pm

A kite is a kite. you don't really fly them different. you will notice it loops harder than a bridled kite pops better requires more wind relaunches different and has slightly different timing. that's it. oh and fuels don't go upwind that good if you care about that.

there's this myth that c kites need to be brought low so you can edge hard. the reality is all kites should be brought low if you want to edge hard. maybe that's what you're thinking of.

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Starsky
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby Starsky » Tue May 03, 2016 3:30 pm

edt wrote:A kite is a kite. you don't really fly them different.
Not sure I'd go that far. A fuel you work around the sky to get the low end, an edge you park it and pick up speed to generate power. A fuel you send it with the bar cranked all the way in to boost big. Do that with a rally and you will barely leave the water. Redirect a rally to zenith while sheeted out, edge and sheet in and your going waaaayyy up.

In general C kites are great for those who like to actively fly their kites, and with time you will use the ability to crank the kite into a turn to generate moments of power to: save yourself, smack a lip, punt a ramp etc.

Your fuels are one of the best kites out there at generating power while actually turning. A huge asset and the whole reason behind them being so great for looping.

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edt
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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby edt » Tue May 03, 2016 3:38 pm

Starsky wrote:
edt wrote:A kite is a kite. you don't really fly them different.
Not sure I'd go that far. A fuel you work around the sky to get the low end, an edge you park it and pick up speed to generate power. A fuel you send it with the bar cranked all the way in to boost big. Do that with a rally and you will barely leave the water. Redirect a rally to zenith while sheeted out, edge and sheet in and your going waaaayyy up.

Yup. But you don't really want to fly a fuel in low wind conditions, they are best when well powered.

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Re: lets talk pure-C flying skills and characteristics!!

Postby sflinux » Tue May 03, 2016 11:24 pm

I haven't flown a newer Fuel, but the old ones fly best on the front lines, with a little slack on the rear lines.
Usually with a c-kite the bar pressure will tell you if you are oversheeted (goes up).
The Fuel flies great with an old school pulley bar for a steady pull, no backstall, and low bar pressure.
De-power: Edge
Perfect Power: Park the kite
More power: Actively fly the kite
Change boards if you need more range. Change kites if you need even more. C-kites have all the depower & range I need. :thumb:


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