Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Why C kites for wakestyle?

Forum for wakestylers only


podiatanapraia
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:17 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Barra da Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Cabrinha Switchblade 2013 12m
Cabrinha Apollo 2017 14m
North Jaime board 133cm
Brand Affiliation: None

Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby podiatanapraia » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:53 am

Hi everyone. I'm trying to figure out a few things on kite design, and it occurred to me that I'm not sure if I really understand what makes a C kite ideal for wakestyle. I know about line slack, but you can get that from any kite that flies more towards the edge of the wind window, right? So what I'm wondering is, what specific flight characteristics make a C kite better for unhooked tricks?

Cheers!

Faxie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby Faxie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:28 am

Consistent forward drive with different angles of attack due to the towpoints being on the wingtips, giving a predictable pull at different wind speeds. Then there's a good distribution of mass, giving stability. In combination with the front and rear towpoints always at the same place on the tips the kite won't recover as fast after a pop, giving you the slack.

Bridled Ckites almost always have the towpoints very close to the wingtips too for the same reason.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2356
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby foilholio » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:52 am

The one dimensionally flat leading edge makes them more crash resilient.

Faxie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby Faxie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:04 am

foilholio wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:52 am
The one dimensionally flat leading edge makes them more crash resilient.

Good point as well!

User avatar
edt
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 5066
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton ronix rpm ozone

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby edt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:17 pm

C kites are more consistent in how much slack and pop they generate. but bridled kites go upwind better so you can get more tricks in per heat. I think eventually pros will ride more bridled kites than c kites

User avatar
jumptheshark
Frequent Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:36 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: Shhhhh
Favorite Beaches: Nude
Gear: The good stuff
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby jumptheshark » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:40 pm

Even 5 years ago, bridled kites sucked at unhooking. They just pulled like freight trains and were so unpredictable sometimes giving near nothing, other times popping you too much.

There are more bridled kites out now that are pretty decent at unhooking but Its definitely not all of em. Kiting has become pretty specialized and In my experience its a pretty small portion of the kiters that ever unhook. but for those that do, C kites a sure thing.

podiatanapraia
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:17 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Barra da Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Cabrinha Switchblade 2013 12m
Cabrinha Apollo 2017 14m
North Jaime board 133cm
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby podiatanapraia » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm

Faxie wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:28 am
Consistent forward drive with different angles of attack due to the towpoints being on the wingtips, giving a predictable pull at different wind speeds. Then there's a good distribution of mass, giving stability. In combination with the front and rear towpoints always at the same place on the tips the kite won't recover as fast after a pop, giving you the slack.

Bridled Ckites almost always have the towpoints very close to the wingtips too for the same reason.
So you´re saying that C kites have a consistent pull as they race across the wind window when unhooked, as opposed to bridled kites that may pull too hard when deep in the power zone, and too soft when closer to the edge of the wind window? Just trying to wrap my head around it. :D

If I understood correctly, this is due to the position of the front lines right at the wing tips, right? Can you tell me how aspect ratio plays into it?

Sorry for nerding out on this, I guess I like to understand how things work...

Cheers!

Faxie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby Faxie » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:10 pm

podiatanapraia wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm
Faxie wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:28 am
Consistent forward drive with different angles of attack due to the towpoints being on the wingtips, giving a predictable pull at different wind speeds. Then there's a good distribution of mass, giving stability. In combination with the front and rear towpoints always at the same place on the tips the kite won't recover as fast after a pop, giving you the slack.

Bridled Ckites almost always have the towpoints very close to the wingtips too for the same reason.
So you´re saying that C kites have a consistent pull as they race across the wind window when unhooked, as opposed to bridled kites that may pull too hard when deep in the power zone, and too soft when closer to the edge of the wind window? Just trying to wrap my head around it. :D

If I understood correctly, this is due to the position of the front lines right at the wing tips, right? Can you tell me how aspect ratio plays into it?

Sorry for nerding out on this, I guess I like to understand how things work...

Cheers!
That's right. When you depower a bridled kite, the towpoints (bridle) moves forward relative to the center of pull. With a C-kite, they move backwards. A kite not only has lift and drag, but also a forward component of the lift, thrust. When you lower the angle of attack, the thrust component pivots forward a bit as well. When the towpoints move forward at the same time it increases the forward speed of the kite in the window. Now, with a C kite, the towpoints move back when you lower the aoa, compensating for the higher speed. Because of this, the pull you get when you pop is very consistent. Bridled kites have a pretty narrow range for consistent popping. If the wind picks up and you have to trim, they will pull much harder when you pop and give very little slack. You have to pop fast and aggressive to get decent pull and slack.

Aspect ratio is not very relevant I think, all C kites have a high AR. I don't think they would benefit from lowering it, would just create more drag, killing upwind and pop.

podiatanapraia
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 4:17 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Barra da Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Cabrinha Switchblade 2013 12m
Cabrinha Apollo 2017 14m
North Jaime board 133cm
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Why C kites for wakestyle?

Postby podiatanapraia » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:58 pm

Faxie wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:10 pm
podiatanapraia wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:43 pm
Faxie wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:28 am
Consistent forward drive with different angles of attack due to the towpoints being on the wingtips, giving a predictable pull at different wind speeds. Then there's a good distribution of mass, giving stability. In combination with the front and rear towpoints always at the same place on the tips the kite won't recover as fast after a pop, giving you the slack.

Bridled Ckites almost always have the towpoints very close to the wingtips too for the same reason.
So you´re saying that C kites have a consistent pull as they race across the wind window when unhooked, as opposed to bridled kites that may pull too hard when deep in the power zone, and too soft when closer to the edge of the wind window? Just trying to wrap my head around it. :D

If I understood correctly, this is due to the position of the front lines right at the wing tips, right? Can you tell me how aspect ratio plays into it?

Sorry for nerding out on this, I guess I like to understand how things work...

Cheers!
That's right. When you depower a bridled kite, the towpoints (bridle) moves forward relative to the center of pull. With a C-kite, they move backwards. A kite not only has lift and drag, but also a forward component of the lift, thrust. When you lower the angle of attack, the thrust component pivots forward a bit as well. When the towpoints move forward at the same time it increases the forward speed of the kite in the window. Now, with a C kite, the towpoints move back when you lower the aoa, compensating for the higher speed. Because of this, the pull you get when you pop is very consistent. Bridled kites have a pretty narrow range for consistent popping. If the wind picks up and you have to trim, they will pull much harder when you pop and give very little slack. You have to pop fast and aggressive to get decent pull and slack.

Aspect ratio is not very relevant I think, all C kites have a high AR. I don't think they would benefit from lowering it, would just create more drag, killing upwind and pop.
I think that´s just about as complete an explanation as I could possibly hope for. Thanks so much, Faxie! Really appreciate it.

Cheers!


Return to “Wakestyle”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron