Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


User avatar
Horst Sergio
Frequent Poster
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:57 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Favorite Beaches: Every puddle I can find in Central Europe,
the unpopular the better
Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
Gear: Just MONOFOILS, no training wheels ;-)
OZONE chrono, FLYSURFER sonic²/r, CONCEPTAIR wave
Brand Affiliation: KITEJUNKIE.com 's prank monkey
Contact:

Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:14 pm

My question is less about crossing a long term lull, but more how to reach a part of the shore line which is hidden behind a small wood / high rock so that you come from let's say 15 knts and have to cross the last 100 m through a region with turbulent 0-5 knts.

This is a common problem at our mountain lakes if you're not kiting at the few regular spots, but starting anywhere by swimming out to start far outside in the wind. The question is: Is it possible to come back with a dry kite by hitting one of the few landing places with less trees, but nearly without wind?

In fact I have already done something similar one time with my old Levitaz Aspect foil, but as having no experience with pumping on a sup foil, can't say how effective my pumping was or if it was most the speed, momentum and rest pull from the kite which carried me to shore.
As ohters I have seen the videos from Kay Lenny pumping in between ten waves 30 sec pumping 30 sec riding for ten minutes, but how about combination flying a kite?

So to all experienced SUP - pumping foilers as Gunnar:

1. What material is favaroable for pumping? For sure big slow wings, but what else?

2. Is pumping while kiting a good way to learn or what alternatives?

3. Do you think pumping is suitable to face the named conditions or is a race foil charged with kinetic energy more effective?

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8807
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:12 pm

An interesting question indeed.

Can not answer on the pumping thing...

But regarding #3:
3. Do you think pumping is suitable to face the named conditions or is a race foil charged with kinetic energy more effective?

I think it depends on the course, as if it is offshore and you have to go upwind, the pumping way is maybe the only chance (if possible, dont know, and doubt it a bit if upwind)...

But if you can ride halfwind or even a tad downwind, a racefoil (not too small wing and racekite) will be able to keep foiling the longest IMO, when you come from wind and get to gusty lulls of almost nothing, as the speed and apparent wind works for both averaging/smoothing the horrible wind quality, as well as staying foiling.

Technically you are not "charged" with kinetic energy for very long (not even close to 100 meter), but you extract so much more energy from the same wind, once up foiling - so racefoil would be my best bet on how to ride through these conditions :thumb:
Another advantage is you have lesser risk of dropping on the water, where you are toast and in for a swim no matter if using the big wing pumping method or the speedy racefoil method.

Because it would be easier to ride fast through "crappy almost nothing wind" on a low course, instead of pumping I would think...

Curious to what others got to say :D

8) PF

juandesooka
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 859
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:05 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Sooke, BC, Canada
Gear: BWS / Ocean Rodeo / Stringy Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby juandesooka » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:22 pm

Interesting question. Seems like it could make sense, to generate enough speed to gain apparent wind and make that 100m.

There was a video this year of someone at La Ventana dropping their kite in light wind, then pumping around it to get the lines taut and relaunching. Not exactly the same, but in the ballpark maybe.

User avatar
davesails7
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2086
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
Kiting since: 2006
Local Beach: Virginia Beach
Style: Race
Gear: Delta Hydrofoil
Flysurfer Sonic2 9m,11m,18m
Sonic Race VMG 15m
OR Mako 130x35
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby davesails7 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:37 pm

This video of Jacob Olivier on a Mike's Lab race foil last year has him gliding/pumping over 100m:

https://www.iksurfmag.com/kitesurfing-n ... e-pumping/

He has serious talent though, so your results may vary :lol: I know I've never had much luck pumping on my race foil. I seem to get best results from just gliding and keeping angle of attack low when trying to get going when underpowered.

BWD
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3421
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby BWD » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:39 pm

He has serious talent
to go with the serious motorboat towing him up to 30mph or so to start. But definitely knows how to pump a foil. :thumb:

I think regarding the original question, the more speed you start with the farther you can go when you lose power, fairly obvious.
I recently sailed a lagoon spot with gusty wind and a point projecting from the weather shore that killed the wind for 100 yards, with glassy water there, but choppy everywhere else. Probably 14-24 knots elsewhere but 10-12 there. Or less, it was glassy!
I was on a 9m kite and a wide surfboard with big fins, but not a hydrofoil (shallow spot).
The only way to make it across was to heat it up aiming for the base of the point and then soak past the tip of the point, then come up a little bit and bleed speed over the 100 yards of no wind.
If you timed it with a gust, it worked out well, otherwise good technique would yield slow planing out of the dead zone, mistakes = dead in the water.
Foiling did not apply at this spot, but I think a similar approach to the course would be good with a foil.
Re-imagining that scenario with deep water and a foil, I would see the next move as feeling the foil start to stall as you bleed off speed, then bearing of again and slowly raising the kite as you pump to get the most distance you can, while the kite gradually sank with slackening lines. I would bet on a big foil kite to make it farthest, but if you did it with an LEI just right, you might catch the kite as you came off the foil, if you didn't make it through the lull to find wind.

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1346
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Ozone, Axis, Moses, Zeeko, Firewire, SBS
Brand Affiliation: Foiling Basics, The Boardroom Fuerteventura, Ozone, Axiskiteboarding,Schwerelosigkite, Triggernaut,
Location: Fuerteventura
Contact:

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby gmb13 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:32 pm

1) Surf Foils with a mast over 70cm are great for pumping. depending on your energy, you can pump it for a good 300m.

2) Yes. A good way to practice pumping is to crash your kite at the edge of the wind window whilst riding and then try to pump a circle around it. Do not unhook. That way you do not risk loosing the kite

3) Pumping a surf foil will get you farther and its easier to pump. Also it will get you thought the lulls better anyways

--
Gunnar

Foil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
2019 groove skate naked carbon.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Moses wings 590 and 548
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:48 pm

Well i am no expert on the foil, some might me called an improver, I have just had my first day on my Moses Onda in 12 mph, around 10knts.with my Ozone Reo 12mtr.
The onda is a complete wave foil for a sup, but I used it today on my Moses T60 with the standard short 60cm mast, and I tried the pumping thing as you are asking about to cover 100 yards,
when the wind died to silly low wind every few minutes,I gave it a go, I did not believe I would be able to pump the board as I thought it would be a skill that would take time, but No! it was very easy, in fact the speed I generated was at times too fast for the kite, or rather I forgot about the kite and was leaving it behind and had to slow down to regain control of the kite, simply amazing, I was thinking this is another sport only limited by your leg power, heading upind was easy.
the effort required was easy for the first 15 seconds but then just like the stair master at the gym my legs started to burn as I tried to go quite fast, but it was so amazing I just could not stop myself going for it.
I had an hours drive to get home and guess what?
yep, as I was getting out of the car my legs nearly gave way, my calves are cramping up along with thigh muscles, brilliant, so much fun.
out again tomorrow, but I will try out my longer 101 mast.
I went for the Moses Onda after seeing gunner use the same in his latest video here--https://youtu.be/I4XUBfao4Ek
Last edited by Foil on Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby tomtom » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:46 pm

its Onda :) welcome in club!

Foil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
2019 groove skate naked carbon.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Moses wings 590 and 548
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby Foil » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:03 pm

tomtom wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:46 pm
its Onda :) welcome in club!
thanks,
onda or onga, silly name, but great kit! :thumb:

plummet
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 6057
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:25 pm
Kiting since: 33
Local Beach: EE
Favorite Beaches: NZ
Style: Terrain riding
Gear: Old wornout ozone.
Plummet hydrofoil and mutant
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Crossing a lull by pumping? Material & How to?

Postby plummet » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:58 am

I have similar conditions on occasions. Ie wind shadow close to shore in cross off conditions.Windy would typically be higher mayby 20-28 lulling to 8-10.

I blast as fast as i can into the lull zone. Take the as much apparent wind as possible. Then i aim to ride a swell or wave in. I can use the wave energy to add a few knots of apparent to the kite. Then when i'n in he real dead zone its loop like crazy. while trying to ride the wave to keep kite aparent up. Most of the time i am successful.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Jay0932 and 3 guests

cron