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some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

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juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:25 pm

PS style and grace ... or maybe not. This photo was one of the most ridiculed "kook of the day" posts ever. A foiler emulating the classic longboard cross-step to nose ride ... if this was on a 12' longboard, it would be considered stylish. On a foil it's considered a lame circus trick. The lesson being: no point even trying to impress the haters, as they're gonna hate no matter what. Do what feels good, "ride like no one's watching", let the rest of the kooks deal with their own inadequacies on their own. :baby: :allbegood: :thumb:
foilkook.JPG

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gmb13
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby gmb13 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:06 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:25 pm
slowboat wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:40 pm
There is a lot of talk about turns on a wave. I just try to get a wave/swell to engage my foil and drift my kite and ride as long as possible. Then go back upwind and do it again. To me the key sensation is the energy of the water engaging the foil. Trying to turn a foil on a wave face is too hard at my skill level and not really necessary to get the sensation we are seeking.
Back to defining what "proper" means. If we're trying to impress our surfing friends, or even kitesurf friends, the measure is inevitably comparing to typical shortboard surfing: top to bottom turns right in the pocket, with vertical 180 turns on the wave face. Anything short of that is judged "lame" and "not really surfing".

But the funny thing is: when I am surfing these days, I am half the time on a longboard and now half the time on a sup, both of which I mostly just get trim and glide, with some slow swooping turns thrown in for variety. Realistically I haven't attempted a radical shortboard style in 15+ years ... so it's a little unrealistic to think I am suddenly going to have one on a foil! Looking at the foiling demographic, I see a lot more middle agers + than young rippers.

My point being, if comparing to surfing, the shortboard style is probably an unfair comparison. As TomTom says, if this is mostly about glide, then comparisons to longboarding may be more appropriate. And if so, the measure of performance may be less about being radical and more about doing it with style and grace. Something to think about maybe. :cool2:
For me it is using that glide to create drive and speed to get those tight turns it. So comparing to shortboard style is fair in my opinion. Just gliding down the wave face like Buzzy is doing, is neither technically difficult or challenging for me.

Getting tighter and tighter turns is feels amazing so far, and there is still a lot of room for improvement on my part. Wing design can also further improve with wings that can handle breaching even better (like the new race wings) so turns off the lip with the wings throwing spray are possible. Also all the footage so far has been on my switch (weak) side. I am sure that if we ever get some wind from the right I will be able to get much better riding on camera.

On the other hand, I also want to get more into the longboard style too with foiling. eg. Cross stepping etc. Combining all that on a wave whilst making turns should be epic. First order of business is getting a new Go Pro tomorrow.

--
Gunnar

juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:30 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:06 pm
Getting tighter and tighter turns is feels amazing so far, and there is still a lot of room for improvement on my part. Wing design can also further improve with wings that can handle breaching even better (like the new race wings) so turns off the lip with the wings throwing spray are possible. Also all the footage so far has been on my switch (weak) side. I am sure that if we ever get some wind from the right I will be able to get much better riding on camera.

On the other hand, I also want to get more into the longboard style too with foiling. eg. Cross stepping etc. Combining all that on a wave whilst making turns should be epic.
My training goal lately has been to "stomp" the turns ... sharp 180 turns, not wide long ones. It feels really good when it works -- you know you're doing it right when you back leg quad gets sore from the strain.

Riding switch: good on you for attempting to ride the waves frontside both ways. I am set in my surfer ways of regular foot, riding rights frontside and lefts backside. But it's very rare in my area to ride lefts.

Maybe that's another possible training goal for you -- more ridong your dominant stance on lefts towards mastering the backside turns? In surfing that's considered a major element of style, to do both really well, with some surfers renowned for having exceptionally good backhand attack. When I was young and still pursuing being rad :roll: , I did a year-long surfing world tour that involved way more lefts than rights, and got to the point that I could really push it on lefts. I found it a pretty awesome feeling to do a solid vertical off the lip, as your body is extended horizontal looking straight down the wave, and then maybe beyond vertical when the fins momentarily slide out at the apex of the turn. Now that would look pretty radical on a foil! 8)

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:36 pm

Yes, so true, riding waves, as well as "surfing" in any way, is all about glide at first, the initial stoke :D

And then the next level that keeps the stoke going, is carving, driving fast power carves, or tight wave and acceleration driven carves - that is what makes it all sensational forever, and true ZEN :thumb:

This goes for windsurf, kitesurf, snowboard, skateboard, surfboard - same fluid glide and carve feel that keeps the stoke alive :naughty:

Spice can be added by jumping/flying/tricks, but the pure glide and carving feel is still the core that is SOOOO addictive for everyone.

8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby plummet » Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:47 am

I think the word you guys are searching for is flow. Getting into that state of flow where everything is seamless and flowing. Turn to turn, wave to wave. Get into that mental state of flow where everything else melts away apart from you and what your doing. You dont have to think about how or what or when or why. You see and do. This is the mental state I aim for in all my sporting activities. The flow or lack of it is probably the reason i'm not fully jelling with foiling yet. I am not yet good enough to be able to fully flow for an entire session. I get snippets of flow partially for a session which is awesome. But i cant flow like i cant my mountain bike , kitebuggy, mutant and landboard.

juandesooka
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby juandesooka » Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Yes, that's a good was to describe it Plummet. By no means do I claim to be a super pro foiler, but after a summer season of 3-4 days a week for 3-4 months, I got some glimpses of that happy place where you feel completely comfortable, in control, and can push it. When I am feeling that "flow" it feels like the board is an extension of my body, whether surf, mako, or foil. It can be fleeting though ... wind/kite conditions have to be just perfect, so a slight change in wind speed or direction, and that feeling of mastery can be gone. As well, with how many variables we deal with kite foiling, I find it takes the first 20 minutes of every session to feel the board under me and understand the wind ... virtually never can just jump on and rock it.

As far as achieving that peak flow, there's no substitute for time on the water. And to achieve that in waves, need to be in a location where there's constant surf and also need to dedicate the time to the foil in lieu of other boards. Sadly, neither work well for me ... so I expect I will continue to only dabble in the dark arts of foiling in waves, carrying on my standard MO "jack of all trades, master of none". :oops: :roll:

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby plummet » Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:54 pm

Yeah man. Flow is what its all about whether you realize it or not. It's we are all subconsciously seeking when we hit the water or trail or whatever it is that feeds our soul. It's what Peter calls Zen. Its a mental state akin to meditation. A mix peace and excitement all at the same time.

Now different people feel flow in different ways. That is why we have non foiling sb riders come on here and state emphatically that foiling waves is boring and does not look like fun and isn't "proper" wave riding. They know how what achieves flow on an sb and what does not. Foiling cannot achieve those moves so they assume that it will not bring them into a state of flow. Little do they know, that flow can be achieved in different ways on the foil.


My particular flow on the foil in the waves is at higher speeds longer turns on and off the wave face, kite power and wave power combined to form a seamless sensation of power, speed and carve. I won't be seeking big slow wings for the tightest turns possible to stay as close to the pocket as possible. I love that sensation of a powered canted carve as deep and as fast as possible. My style of wave riding will look boring and not "proper" wave riding to the masses as i'll drive in and off the face with my big sweeping turns. It won't be awesome to watch as I won't be doing tight, twisty, splashy. But I wont care. I'll have that goofy grin on my face, and nothing else will matter!


Ahhhh.....

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Peter_Frank
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:00 pm

Well said plummet, right on :thumb:

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IainMacaskill
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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby IainMacaskill » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:40 am

juandesooka wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:25 pm
PS style and grace ... or maybe not. This photo was one of the most ridiculed "kook of the day" posts ever. A foiler emulating the classic longboard cross-step to nose ride ... if this was on a 12' longboard, it would be considered stylish. On a foil it's considered a lame circus trick. The lesson being: no point even trying to impress the haters, as they're gonna hate no matter what. Do what feels good, "ride like no one's watching", let the rest of the kooks deal with their own inadequacies on their own. :baby: :allbegood: :thumb:

foilkook.JPG
This is the problem with negative peope, their attention is focused on the man on the foil when there is a mysterious hottie on the twin tip.

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Re: some proper Wave foiling with a Kite

Postby Foil » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:19 am

this film is compelling to watch for me.
glide away into dreamy flowing small waves.
https://vimeo.com/265424213


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