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Wave oriented hydrofoil

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Kamikuza
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:30 am

Problem with a draggy foil IM uneducated O is you then need a bigger kite to overcome the drag and that sucks.

Better to have a foil that had a nice low stall speed and gentle nose up response....

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby BraCuru » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm

stevez wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:47 am
Do you really want unwanted drag?
Positive. Too slow down the thing.
Kamikuza wrote: Problem with a draggy foil IM uneducated O is you then need a bigger kite to overcome the drag and that sucks.
Better to have a foil that had a nice low stall speed and gentle nose up response....
Did you try Moses FR450 wing which has much thicker profile?
I love it connected to wave strapless board.
Don't remember but max profile thickness of the wing was bigger than the strut - around 15mm.
I'm a poor wave rider however I can feel some differences in waves.
One of them is that the low AR are much better than the high AR.
Another: the slower one is better than the fast one.

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby salvino » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:19 pm

Interesting if how nature's solution for optimal glide in birds seems to be articulating wings and feathers for both angle of attack and AR. Our flying planes, similar.

Maybe something on that concept could be brought to the hydrofoil as it applies to catching, riding, carving a wave.
Some sort of changeable induced drag/increased lift to line everything up similar to flaps on an airplane.

Or even if the concept could be achieved by the rider changing the board angle to achieve same result so as foil design is nonarticulating and simple.

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Kamikuza
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:23 pm

BraCuru wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm
Did you try Moses FR450 wing which has much thicker profile?
I love it connected to wave strapless board.
Don't remember but max profile thickness of the wing was bigger than the strut - around 15mm.
I'm a poor wave rider however I can feel some differences in waves.
One of them is that the low AR are much better than the high AR.
Another: the slower one is better than the fast one.
No I haven't tried. Never seen a Moses in the Pacific hemisphere, yet...!

I think low AR stalls more gently which makes riding it slowly at least more pleasant, if not easier.

But too draggy needs too much power to ride. I rode the Double Agent again recently, and it was actually great fun in the waves but DAMN it needed a lot of power to get any speed out of it! Which made accelerating away in chicken jibes and making speed and upwind angle when the wind dropped very difficult.

I was hoping to get a ride on a really big winged foil back in NZ, but the timing didn't work out. I'm interested in the Zeeko Carver now...

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:59 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:23 pm
BraCuru wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm
Did you try Moses FR450 wing which has much thicker profile?
I love it connected to wave strapless board.
Don't remember but max profile thickness of the wing was bigger than the strut - around 15mm.
I'm a poor wave rider however I can feel some differences in waves.
One of them is that the low AR are much better than the high AR.
Another: the slower one is better than the fast one.
No I haven't tried. Never seen a Moses in the Pacific hemisphere, yet...!

I think low AR stalls more gently which makes riding it slowly at least more pleasant, if not easier.

But too draggy needs too much power to ride. I rode the Double Agent again recently, and it was actually great fun in the waves but DAMN it needed a lot of power to get any speed out of it! Which made accelerating away in chicken jibes and making speed and upwind angle when the wind dropped very difficult.

I was hoping to get a ride on a really big winged foil back in NZ, but the timing didn't work out. I'm interested in the Zeeko Carver now...
Get the Zeeko with the Carver Wing. Magic in the waves and flat water. I don't often get over 18knots with the BRM Clouds, but I have no issues going around 6/7/8 knot mark.
I have the El Stubbo and Shinnster, BRM Paipo boards. El Stubbo is too small for the larger gent, but the Shinnster and BRM paipo work really well.

Also helps to have a non-race kite in the waves to slow down or a kite that will de-power completely and drift along with you.

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby Bletti » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 pm

[/quote]

Get the Zeeko with the Carver Wing. Magic in the waves and flat water. I don't often get over 18knots with the BRM Clouds, but I have no issues going around 6/7/8 knot mark.
I have the El Stubbo and Shinnster, BRM Paipo boards. El Stubbo is too small for the larger gent, but the Shinnster and BRM paipo work really well.

Also helps to have a non-race kite in the waves to slow down or a kite that will de-power completely and drift along with you.
[/quote]

How do you find the flex of the brm paipo and shinnster (or do you have the carbon plate version)? I built a diy carbon plate for my first generation shinnster that works pretty well, though I'd like it just a touch stiffer.

I have the spitfire which I like a lot but I'm tempted to either build a larger low speed wing or wait for zeeko to release a larger set

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:17 am

As i dabble in bigger an bigger waves i see that slow speed is required to get on the wave and not be blown out too fast once the wave is caught. But as the size of the waves build so too does their speed. To keep up with bigger faster waves you need to also have the ability to go fast. So a low aspect foil might work on small slow sub shoulder high stuff. But throw it into head high plus fast moving wave and it will max out and try to kill you.

I don't have the solution other than using a stupid small kite than the power can easily be turned on and off.

My gut is that low aspect for small slow cruddy wave mid aspect foil shapes is the way for most waves. When you get into monster waves then maybe high aspect foils will be the way.

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Kamikuza
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:11 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:59 pm
Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:23 pm
BraCuru wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:58 pm
Did you try Moses FR450 wing which has much thicker profile?
I love it connected to wave strapless board.
Don't remember but max profile thickness of the wing was bigger than the strut - around 15mm.
I'm a poor wave rider however I can feel some differences in waves.
One of them is that the low AR are much better than the high AR.
Another: the slower one is better than the fast one.
No I haven't tried. Never seen a Moses in the Pacific hemisphere, yet...!

I think low AR stalls more gently which makes riding it slowly at least more pleasant, if not easier.

But too draggy needs too much power to ride. I rode the Double Agent again recently, and it was actually great fun in the waves but DAMN it needed a lot of power to get any speed out of it! Which made accelerating away in chicken jibes and making speed and upwind angle when the wind dropped very difficult.

I was hoping to get a ride on a really big winged foil back in NZ, but the timing didn't work out. I'm interested in the Zeeko Carver now...
Get the Zeeko with the Carver Wing. Magic in the waves and flat water. I don't often get over 18knots with the BRM Clouds, but I have no issues going around 6/7/8 knot mark.
I have the El Stubbo and Shinnster, BRM Paipo boards. El Stubbo is too small for the larger gent, but the Shinnster and BRM paipo work really well.

Also helps to have a non-race kite in the waves to slow down or a kite that will de-power completely and drift along with you.
Yeah it's an option. I'm hoping Axis will come through with a big wing option, before I buy the next foil...

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Kamikuza
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:17 am

Bletti wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:20 pm
How do you find the flex of the brm paipo and shinnster (or do you have the carbon plate version)? I built a diy carbon plate for my first generation shinnster that works pretty well, though I'd like it just a touch stiffer.

I have the spitfire which I like a lot but I'm tempted to either build a larger low speed wing or wait for zeeko to release a larger set
If it's anything like the Double Agent then it's not noticeably a problem for free ride...

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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby flying grandpa » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:04 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:30 am
Problem with a draggy foil IM uneducated O is you then need a bigger kite to overcome the drag and that sucks.
You can set up high AR foil to decrease both -max speed and drag at low speed.
Just increase by the same amount AoA of both wings - front and rear. Just 2-4 deg is enough.
Useful for begginers and waveriders.


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