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Wave oriented hydrofoil

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jespin4845
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby jespin4845 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:38 am

so I've been foiling strapless in waves from 1 to 10 feet, today i was on 6-8ish

i still don't know what i want, i have a spitfire that i really don't use much cause its kind of annoying to relearn muscle memory and find that it needs to go fast, feels like a gun surfboard at first but again i still have to learn it

my main foil is an LP foil with 720 wings and a 90cm mast, which i was on today, onshore conditions with powerful waves, the wing lifts me too much when i shut the kite down and propels me downwind where there is no more power and have to re engage the kite

a year ago i would have said fat wings and 90 cm mast are perfect for waves, but now I'm starting to change my mind

i tried a 70 cm mast the other day in 3-4 ft and that was a bitch, once on a wave it was awesome and felt awesome to carve, but the navigation in the chop just annoys me with the short mast and destroys the ride, on a surfboard/sup i can see why a short mast would be good

i am starting to believe a smaller wing and a longer mast would be good for the bigger waves, but again i still don't know what i want, i need more rides on other foils, my LP is great but at a certain size wave it becomes too much

i used to have a zeeko alloy and believe that flat wings are key with a single vertical fin in the rear, but even that was missing something, i never got to try the carver wing set, perhaps that was it, can i have it with LP construction and a 100cm mast ??? :)

but then the horue h13/h14 looks so good, dude is probably 50 lbs less than me thou and his wings are perfect for him

when i jumped on a jimmy lewis kwad i knew that was the board, one day i will find that foil : )

plummet
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:54 am

jespin4845 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:38 am
so I've been foiling strapless in waves from 1 to 10 feet, today i was on 6-8ish

i still don't know what i want, i have a spitfire that i really don't use much cause its kind of annoying to relearn muscle memory and find that it needs to go fast, feels like a gun surfboard at first but again i still have to learn it

my main foil is an LP foil with 720 wings and a 90cm mast, which i was on today, onshore conditions with powerful waves, the wing lifts me too much when i shut the kite down and propels me downwind where there is no more power and have to re engage the kite

a year ago i would have said fat wings and 90 cm mast are perfect for waves, but now I'm starting to change my mind

i tried a 70 cm mast the other day in 3-4 ft and that was a bitch, once on a wave it was awesome and felt awesome to carve, but the navigation in the chop just annoys me with the short mast and destroys the ride, on a surfboard/sup i can see why a short mast would be good

i am starting to believe a smaller wing and a longer mast would be good for the bigger waves, but again i still don't know what i want, i need more rides on other foils, my LP is great but at a certain size wave it becomes too much

i used to have a zeeko alloy and believe that flat wings are key with a single vertical fin in the rear, but even that was missing something, i never got to try the carver wing set, perhaps that was it, can i have it with LP construction and a 100cm mast ??? :)

but then the horue h13/h14 looks so good, dude is probably 50 lbs less than me thou and his wings are perfect for him

when i jumped on a jimmy lewis kwad i knew that was the board, one day i will find that foil : )
Interesting thoughts. Where about on the wave face are you riding on a 10ft wave? close to the pocket?

plummet
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:59 am

flying grandpa wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:57 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 am
flying grandpa wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:04 am



You can set up high AR foil to decrease both -max speed and drag at low speed.
Just increase by the same amount AoA of both wings - front and rear. Just 2-4 deg is enough.
Useful for begginers and waveriders.

I dont understand this - can you explain ?

When you change AOA on both wings you will change the fuselage "flow" direction so it might have a tad less drag (or more, depending on the specific design) at low speeds yes.
And reverse - more (fuselage) drag at higher speeds

But your overall lift is not bigger, in fact precisely the same, thus you can not ride slower.

You get the board pointing 2-4 degrees more "down" with the nose, which might give you a placebo effect so you will try to keep it horisontal thus ride closer to or above the stall point, but I dont assume this is your target ?

8) PF
You've got it rigt with the fuse. I couldn't explain it any better.
Mext sentence is a little overinterpretation. I did not say you can go slower. I said you can reduce max speed - and drag at low speed.
You are also right with lower nose.
Additionally, you will need less front foot pressure. That may ask for straps to go few cm back, but you don't use any, as I know.
Have fun.
Tadeusz.
Peter is right. Changing the front wing aoa and matching that back wing aoa only changes the level angle the board will ride at. You have to change the rear in relation to the front.

If the front foot pressure becomes less and you shift the straps back further to compensate that means you have reduced the AOA of the rear wing in relation to the front.

You dont need to change the front wing. Only the back needs to change or vise versa.

I'm currently running a high aoa. Makes for more stability, But reduces top speed.

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ulx
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby ulx » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:53 am

plummet wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:17 am
I don't have the solution other than using a stupid small kite than the power can easily be turned on and off.
Yes, I do believe that is one of the most important factors. Had huge fun in the waves with a tiny kite and my ketos wave in my Aruba holidays just recently.

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flying grandpa
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby flying grandpa » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:09 am

plummet wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:59 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 am
...
When you change AOA on both wings you will change the fuselage "flow" direction so it might have a tad less drag (or more, depending on the specific design) at low speeds yes.
And reverse - more (fuselage) drag at higher speeds
...
8) PF
Peter is right. Changing the front wing aoa and matching that back wing aoa only changes the level angle the board will ride at. You have to change the rear in relation to the front.

If the front foot pressure becomes less and you shift the straps back further to compensate that means you have reduced the AOA of the rear wing in relation to the front.

You dont need to change the front wing. Only the back needs to change or vise versa.

I'm currently running a high aoa. Makes for more stability, But reduces top speed.
There are two phenomenons.
Changing the rear in relation to the front is changing declage angle (DA).
It may increase drag as well as FF pressure, if you increase DA.

When you change AoA of both, you change also AoA of fuselage.
Foil builders tends to minimize drag at highest speed, as an effect at high speed fuse axis is parallel to water flow.

Increasing AoA of both, we shift min drag into direction of lower speed as well as decrease FF pressure.
Fuse nose down starts to give significant drag when you accelerate.

Mixing your attitude, plummet, with mine, i.e. increasing AoA of front wing only (DA increases), we can expect to have both benefits - lower max speed without the need to move straps back due to foot pressure changes.

As a bonus we have lower drag at low speed - can be a session saver at marginal winds.

cheers
Tadeusz

plummet
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:26 am

flying grandpa wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:09 am
plummet wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:59 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:08 am
...
When you change AOA on both wings you will change the fuselage "flow" direction so it might have a tad less drag (or more, depending on the specific design) at low speeds yes.
And reverse - more (fuselage) drag at higher speeds
...
8) PF
Peter is right. Changing the front wing aoa and matching that back wing aoa only changes the level angle the board will ride at. You have to change the rear in relation to the front.

If the front foot pressure becomes less and you shift the straps back further to compensate that means you have reduced the AOA of the rear wing in relation to the front.

You dont need to change the front wing. Only the back needs to change or vise versa.

I'm currently running a high aoa. Makes for more stability, But reduces top speed.
There are two phenomenons.
Changing the rear in relation to the front is changing declage angle (DA).
It may increase drag as well as FF pressure, if you increase DA.

When you change AoA of both, you change also AoA of fuselage.
Foil builders tends to minimize drag at highest speed, as an effect at high speed fuse axis is parallel to water flow.

Increasing AoA of both, we shift min drag into direction of lower speed as well as decrease FF pressure.
Fuse nose down starts to give significant drag when you accelerate.

Mixing your attitude, plummet, with mine, i.e. increasing AoA of front wing only (DA increases), we can expect to have both benefits - lower max speed without the need to move straps back due to foot pressure changes.

As a bonus we have lower drag at low speed - can be a session saver at marginal winds.

cheers
Tadeusz
Ok I get it. I hadn't thought about fuse drag at low speed aoa.

jespin4845
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Re: Wave oriented hydrofoil

Postby jespin4845 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:59 pm

plummet wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:54 am
jespin4845 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:38 am
so I've been foiling strapless in waves from 1 to 10 feet, today i was on 6-8ish

i still don't know what i want, i have a spitfire that i really don't use much cause its kind of annoying to relearn muscle memory and find that it needs to go fast, feels like a gun surfboard at first but again i still have to learn it

my main foil is an LP foil with 720 wings and a 90cm mast, which i was on today, onshore conditions with powerful waves, the wing lifts me too much when i shut the kite down and propels me downwind where there is no more power and have to re engage the kite

a year ago i would have said fat wings and 90 cm mast are perfect for waves, but now I'm starting to change my mind

i tried a 70 cm mast the other day in 3-4 ft and that was a bitch, once on a wave it was awesome and felt awesome to carve, but the navigation in the chop just annoys me with the short mast and destroys the ride, on a surfboard/sup i can see why a short mast would be good

i am starting to believe a smaller wing and a longer mast would be good for the bigger waves, but again i still don't know what i want, i need more rides on other foils, my LP is great but at a certain size wave it becomes too much

i used to have a zeeko alloy and believe that flat wings are key with a single vertical fin in the rear, but even that was missing something, i never got to try the carver wing set, perhaps that was it, can i have it with LP construction and a 100cm mast ??? :)

but then the horue h13/h14 looks so good, dude is probably 50 lbs less than me thou and his wings are perfect for him

when i jumped on a jimmy lewis kwad i knew that was the board, one day i will find that foil : )
Interesting thoughts. Where about on the wave face are you riding on a 10ft wave? close to the pocket?
everywhere, but never able to really remain in the pocket, just crossing it for a second, whether I'm coming in and do a "bottom carve" or I'm just crossing the closing wave and happen to hit the pocket for a second

we have sloping waves here that are cause by storms, never hollow waves, have no idea how to deal with a hollow wave whether its a surfboard or foil, just white water messy wind chop here

4-6ish today, but 10-13 knots today, have to keep lines tight in that light of wind, can only let the kite go slack for 5 seconds at most

and the damn seaweed today :angryfire:


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