I suck at jybes

[plummet]

What i'm finding helping is getting the kite to 11 or 1. Not quite at the zenith. Just a little ahead of you so it still pulls you along slowly while you do the foot switch but you can also bar in for unweighting to if need be. I also tried to go too fast to begin with. I've also backed the speed off for now to a slow plane on the water. As soon as I get my foot in the front foot switch I'm sending the kite for more power.
I'm at about 60% success rate on my good side and maybe 20% on my bad side. At each phase of this foiling learning curve I've had to teach my good side then teach my bad side. With the exception of jumping. I appear to be ambidextrous jumping.

[Jzh_perth]

The downwind slalom is exactly the right idea ! I ride with a seat harness hence a slider helps with rotation. But a loose waist harness would also work. Same as we would use in waves on surfboard.

Another good one to try is the toeside waterstart - starting sitting In The regular position and rotation front foot up and over as you dive the kite so you come up in the toeside stance. Getting upwind and learning against he kite asap really helps get going toeside as heading downwind doesn't seem to generate enough apparent wind for me to get foiling - this is on Flysurfer sonics.

[Peter_Frank]

Agree fully with Jzh_perth in the former post, well now 5 posts ago

Bring the kite up over 12 when learning full carves - the downloop turn can be practiced later as not as easy and not as useable in waves either, not as "safe", eventhough you can use it in marginal winds better indeed.

You dont need much speed, actually important not to go too fast and not too powered either - and can as always only recommend longer lines as you will get a much better and more balanced sweep and turn
When you carve you will "accelerate" so you wont drop off the foil anyways, even if starting slow.

Head upwind when going straight before the turn, dont go too fast, fly the kite a bit under 45 degree before starting and then turn the kite up - immediately after the kite starts going up you do the turn, think "front foot yaw" to get a reasonably not too wide arc.
DONT follow the kite (You dont follow the kite on waveboards either)

If you do so, you will end up downwind and kite to the new side, without ANY power at all, it might even drop in the drink, and you will drop down on the water for sure
This is what happens for most when they try carving for the first times...

The timing is critical and takes a long time to get right - when you can, you just can and dont even think about it nomore.

It has to be synchronized, start flying the kite up while you are still heading upwind - when kite starts to pull you start the turn, and fly the kite up so during the turn it is around 12, and NOT on the way in the new direction yet - very important (thus "dont follow the kite").

The kite flies over 12 and you can start diving it down again when you head out of the turn, and voilá you got it right with power in the kite, all the way around and when coming out especially

In lower wind the timing is even more critical, and you have to make a narrower turn to keep foiling all the way around


For me there is no difference whether I use a sliding harness or a normal one, actually prefer the latter - so I think this is very personal and should not be an issue.


Here a couple of days ago, a couple of jibes and turns, out with an 8m2 wave LEI in 12-13 knots (so took my smaller wing/board when 13 knots):



Regarding jibing, I only jibe at the end of the turn (waveboard style), dont like it the other way around (foil racejibe style) - also personal just my choice.

Switch feet before the board heads up on the new tack (and before it is canted), but usually not till the very moment I have a tad of support from the kite, otherwise too difficult and risky

My experiences at least.

Peter

[Regis-de-giens]

the two cents of a recent gyber. I tried with and without loops:

1- first without downloop as recommended by Peter Franck ; I must say I am generally fully in line with its analyses. it helps to remove my "40 year-old fear" to initiate the gype. But I rapidly found out that it often led to slack lines or balance problems due to the absence of tension in the bar (specially in light winds as Peter said, but even in medium winds if your foiling curve is too wide which happens often by lack of engagement). It finally requires a fine timing and engagement.

2- So I rapidly swaped to gybes with a downloop (foil kite or LEI ) as more recommended by Starsky as far as I remember , even my succcess rate was poor, say lass than 25 %. I often practice loops in snowkiting which helps to find the courage to launch one). In the end, I found out that it procures a quite constant pull which helps to commit, shorten the curve and a support for the balance. Moreover after the turn, the kite still crosses the window, helping you to keep the planning, while without loop it dyes at the end of the window with too poor power in my "beginner" experience.

I have one tip for the first trials with downloop and the associated "fear" it can induce : go deep downwind, deeper and deeper until being at the flight limit of the kite which is more "relaxing". Then launch the loop frankly. That way the kite will loop slower , the tension will increase only when the kite has almost finished the loop, therefore the "boost" will appear later one and with less violence. Then with more habits, you can launch the downwind earlier (before being fully downwind) and benefit from the gained speed on your HF stability.

[Peter_Frank]

A few basic pointers for those reading and learning about flying carves and jibes:

We could use the same terms, so we dont confuse each other:

1. "Carving" is when you turn your hydrofoil 180 degree off the wind and ride on the other tack, either coming from heelside to toeside, or from toeside to heelside.

2. "Jibing" (or "Gybing") is when you do a full carve like above coming from heelside, and also switch your feet so still heelside on the new tack.


Carving can be done both with a downloop or kite upturn.

Jibing is usually done either:

1. "Waveboardstyle", kite upturn carve around and switch feet going out of the turn, to make a jibe.
2. "Racestyle", kite high initiate carve and switch feet going into the turn, and downloop the kite, to make a jibe.

Of course "Racestyle" is for everybody not only racers, it is just the only way you see racers jibe, as quite safe and efficient, thus many of us use this term.

When you downloop carve or jibe, it is essential to carve BEFORE the downloop
This way you can keep tight lines and speed, and you can make this turn pretty easy (when learned) even when going deep downwind at speed, so you can carve from side to side without getting slack lines - IF you do not loop before you turn, as this will be a disaster and end in a crashed kite or at least losing power and board drops down on the water
It is really fun to go deep and fast downwind this way, but can also be used from high angles to the wind, here the timing is more critical and difficult though, for a continous flying turn not losing speed

When you turn the kite up and around when you carve or jibe, you have to time it right and synchronised as written in the earlier post, this way you dont get slack lines and you have way more options to avoid losing upwind ground or to turn back midway or 3/4 or after the carve - so for waveriding no discussion it works better.
As with the downloop you will get higher speed at the end of the turn and get pulled a bit downwind and also kite lower - which you usually dont want when carving on the waves - you get "locked" to a fixed pattern this way and can not ride and turn freely nomore

But going deep and fast downwind, the kite up turn is not as good/easy, as you will often slow the kite down and get slack lines - so the downloop is the way to go here.

IMO of course, but loving it and hope it can help someone regarding what to practice when

Above only goes for "flying" carves and jibes as said - because when board is down on the water, everything is different and more like a "normal" directional (with huge fins ha haa), where the timing and footwork is a lot different so like night and day.
But you still have to learn jibing with board on the water first

Typically when new you start jibing with board on the water all the way around, to get the hang of things, while you practice carving without switching feet also.
Then you can make partly foiling jibes with touchdowns just before you switch feet (if at the way out).
When better at this - you can go for semifoiling jibes, where board just touches down fast when you switch feet, no matter if on the way out or going into the carve.
Finally, you switch feet flying all the way !

In general it is way easier to do foiling jibes when well powered and bigger kites.

Peter

[3InletsWindsports]

Thanks guys,

[Mossy 757]

Foiling jybes are a LONG way off!

Respectfully disagree, they're probably right around the corner. Do some exercises where you just surface gybe back and forth, carving S turns down wind as you switch feet. If you're well powered, you can just redirect the kite over the top without a down loop. Once you're good at this, foiling gybes are about 5 or 6 sessions away.

I find now that the difference between a foiling gybe and a touchdown gybe is 100% related to entry speed and how fast I switch my feet. Now that I can do a simultaneous foot switch instead of a "rear to front, front to rear" two step maneuver, foiling through is more intuitive. I'm still only at about a 30% success rate, but the lead in to a touch down gybe requires more mental attention than to just sheet in hard, go weightless, and hop around to get my new stance.

The big thing is just incrementally increasing your entry speed into a touchdown gybe so you can ride away on foil having only kissed the water briefly. Once you're there it's like a week or two and you'll be foiling through...

[plummet]

I'm looking forward to a time that I can do a foiling jybe. Trying to target a bit of smooth water in my usual swell and chop is challenging. I recon once dialled the foiling jybe will be more repeatable

[Do-it]

If it makes to feel better my buddy is doing jibes on his fourth session.

[3InletsWindsports]

I'm sure I can do it in 4 sessions.
As long as a session is 40 hrs long with lots of breaks for food sleep and work.