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Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

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fun2kite
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Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby fun2kite » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:51 pm

We may have better foils, boards and bars soon.

How long before kitesurfing equipment makers catch on to this new great material? It seem that hydrofoils will benefit most from it. What do you guys think? Is this exciting or not?

DSM Dyneema couldn’t hide their excitement of their new product: Dyneema Carbon, which they launched at K. Dyneema Carbon is a hybrid of pure carbon fiber and Dyneema fiber that can be tailored to meet a variety of performance requirements. By marrying carbon with Dyneema, impact energy absorption can be increased by up to 100% while removing the risk of splintering. DSM claims that Dyneema Carbon hybrid composites are also lighter, less brittle and more vibration dampening than pure carbon composites.

“Carbon fiber is a great material but it is lacking in impact performance – ductility– so when we mix in Dyneema with carbon fiber, it gives you ductility,” Motahari Pour says. “Carbon fiber is already lightweight and stiff but it has drawbacks of being brittle…adding Dyneema complements the stiffness and improves ductility and improves the feel and contributes to a weight difference, making the composite lighter.”
This ability to replace up to half the carbon with Dyneema without significantly reducing the final composite’s typical ‘carbon fiber’ performance, reflects another useful property of Dyneema, according to the company. Dyneema fibers have a lower density than traditional carbon fiber. So, on a weight-for-weight basis, you can make the composite that contains Dyneema thicker than one that doesn’t.


http://www.compositesworld.com/blog/pos ... l-impacts-

-D.

Mossy 757
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:07 pm

Stiffer, lighter, more durable. Seems like all good things, but composite hydrofoils don't really have a lot of headroom to increase in price without sacrificing market share, so if this stuff costs the same or maybe less then I'm excited. If this is a way to charge 1.5x-5x more, I'm skeptical at how quickly it will take off.

gbrungra
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby gbrungra » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:40 pm

Mixing other fibers in with carbon to improve impact performance isn't new. Aramid fibers (brand name: Kevlar) have been mixed in for this reason for decades. If you've ever seen a carbon part with yellow strands in it, that's what's going on. (Common in mountain bike bar ends, etc)

kiterocky
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby kiterocky » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:29 pm

Carbon kevlar was top.. But more difficult to cut..the Carbon its easier to shape Compare to kevlar

norcom
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby norcom » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:08 am

Mossy 757 wrote:... so if this stuff costs the same or maybe less ...
What planet are you living on?

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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby Johnny Rotten » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:54 am

mixing materials of vastly different modulus is in most cases not smart structurally
since carbon Is much stiffer than spectra/dyneema, it still is taking the majority of the load as the structure is loaded.
replacing carbon with something else most often makes it weaker. You end up with less carbon taking most of the load.
Once the carbon breaks the dyneema will step in and take the load...given it's extreme strength, it'll likely hold everything together but the original stiffness will be a goner and buckling then becomes very likely.

Dyneema's low density makes it appealing from a "bulking" perspective in that it adds thickness to a thin skin at minimal weight which helps in impact toughness and buckling resistance. However dyneema (UHMPE) has known poor bonding characteristics with epoxies (it's STILL polyethylene) so becomes virtually useless in compression buckling.

It will have benefits to impact and penetration resistance so if this is the problem you are trying to solve it may be effective but will come at a loss of other mechanical properties. It's also great at preventing a composite from shattering during failure. and this is usually where these hybrid fabrics are most frequently used. Where a splintering floorboard or sidepod on a race car could get someone killed.

Dyneema is available without the goofy hybrid fabric.
there are ways to use it effectively to make cool stuff but flying things like hydrofoils are all about maximum aspect ratios the stiffness of carbon is what makes it so good for this. The addition of dyneema will reduce the stiffness and decrease the bond strength both negatives.

No purpose on a foil as far as I'm concerned

fun2kite
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby fun2kite » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:33 am

Thank you for this explanation. !

norcom
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby norcom » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:20 am

Aren't all carbon structures like bicycle frames, foils, kiteboards, whatever done in multiple layers? Maybe making the whole structure with dyneema carbon wouldn't be the best idea because it wouldn't be as stiff but making just the top layer could be beneficial.

I wouldn't mind having my carbon mountain bike frames have a top player with full dyneema strands running through it. Sure it might not treat impact with dents like aluminum but it might prevent it cracking completely in half like the below example. It might give you that split second you need to save your ass and bail out or limp home with a floppy board/foil. :?:

Image

Mossy 757
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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:16 pm

norcom wrote:It might give you that split second you need to save your ass and bail out or limp home with a floppy board/foil. :?:
Having hit something hard enough to properly break a CF hydrofoil and having had to limp home, that feature does not seem like a value-add if it would cost more. If it's a nice to have freebie with no drawbacks or additional cost...sure. Based on your post above, that seems unlikely.

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Re: Dyneema Carbon - new exciting material for kiteboarding!

Postby DartBoard » Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:35 am

UHMWPE (what Dyneema is made from) has excellent abrasion resistance properties and is used on the snowboard and twin tip bases. Putting dyneema fabric as the top layer on foils may help prevent scratching that can create failure points and could be a sacrificial surface for sanding to improve speed. Replacing carbon fibres with it and claiming there's no downside just sounds like marketing madness.


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