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Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

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lieutenantglorp
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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby lieutenantglorp » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:47 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:22 pm
I think tacking is much easier with short lines versus long. The timing is faster and there's less of a long deliberate pause in the middle.
Agree. Also easier with lighter wind and bigger kite, assuming you are sufficiently powered. You get longer duration of lift and can slow the tack down and focus on what you are doing. I never became consistent until I spent more time in these conditions.

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby Frank Rosin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:37 am

I prefer smaller kites and shorter lines:
https://youtu.be/4belsfw_kKg
7m on 14m lines in about 15kts in this case.

I guess there is no general consensus, it depends a lot on personal preference, local conditions,...

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Frank
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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:13 am

Hmmm, I think there IS a general consensus Frank, that bigger kites makes tacking and jibing easier - you get more time and can make yourself weightless way easier :thumb:

I know you prefer smaller kites and short lines, but that is your general preference, so maybe you got so used to it that you can tack easier with these now ?
Or is it not specifically for tacking you find short lines and small kites are better ?

Will still say no doubt, that I can see and hear a general consensus that bigger kites makes these moves easier (which I also find myself, eventhough I prefer small kites and longer lines...) :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby gmb13 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:02 pm

For learning tacks, power is your friend. If you are really powered with short lines it is very easy as it takes less time for the kite to get to the zenith. However the reality is that most people are not going to foil with super short lines. It's just not practical for most kiters, and also a lot of foilers do it in very light winds.

It also really depends on the lift of the kite. High AR kites make it a way easier to, as they carry you through the tack easier. And there there are huge differences between the generations. The R1V2 is so much easier to tack than the R1v1 for example.

So if you are going to learn to tack strapless, go well powered up. Maybe a kite size bigger than you would normally use.

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby Yodarocket31 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:37 pm

What about tacking with foil kites vs tube/LEI kites?

I am using North Rebel + Sword2 foil. I can tack in both directions/both sides consistently, but I can only maintain foiling when I loop the kite as I switch feet.

If I simply dive the kite normally, I never seem to get enough lift from a North Rebel and the board always touches down on the water. But maybe my timing/technique is still off and I am diving the kite too late in the tack??

Frank, in one of your videos I see you looping a tube/LEI kite with every tack. Is this because the wind was light, or because these kites simply do not generate enough lift?

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:04 pm

Frank generally use really small kites and short lines compared to many others, so looping the kite is an easy (and good) way to get "power on demand" :thumb:

That is my estimate, but let us hear from Frank :D

Gunnars advice is spot on btw, hats off for seeing what most riders do and need.

8) PF

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby GCKiter » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:50 pm

After reading this thread this is definitely something I want to accomplish. I been foiling for 8mths now and can jibe toeside all day long but still have trouble setting up for a roll tack. I still use my front strap SB style and no back strap. When I'm powering up into the wind would it help to at the same time pull up on the front strap to help turn the nose of the board thru the wind? It looks like on the videos posted that a lot of y'all execute the maneuver with your body extended and leaning out to help swing the yaw momentum of the board around right before you switch your feet.

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby Frank Rosin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:50 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:13 am
Hmmm, I think there IS a general consensus Frank, that bigger kites makes tacking and jibing easier - you get more time and can make yourself weightless way easier :thumb:

I know you prefer smaller kites and short lines, but that is your general preference, so maybe you got so used to it that you can tack easier with these now ?
Or is it not specifically for tacking you find short lines and small kites are better ?

Will still say no doubt, that I can see and hear a general consensus that bigger kites makes these moves easier (which I also find myself, eventhough I prefer small kites and longer lines...) :naughty:

8) PF

I guess we are both right in a way.

For me it is way easier to tack on short lines and small kites.
But of course in the end it is the easiest for me on the setup I use the most.
Also within my personal kite and bars quiver, the set I use the most makes everything the easiest for me.
But I can also explain a little why I feel for me that smallish kites and shorter lines make it easier for me:
Both gives a more reactive system and can create higher power peaks that create lift and/or weightless moments to switch feet.
This is what I am used to.
So when switching to bigger kites and longer lines, which in my quiver would be the 9m R1 on 17m lines, it already is quite a different timing that is needed and the power peaks are not as explosive (which I like), but longer and stronger.
With the setup just mentioned I am still feeling comfortable, but if going to an extreme for me, like a 15m R1 on 20m lines, which I tested a few times, all my maneuvers feel very weak if I even manage to complete solid percentage of them. I would need quite some time on this system to become comfortable I think. It is completely different riding style than I am used to and I like so much.
And I know that this is completely different or the opposite really for a lot of people. And that is OK.
So yeah, from my perspective I am saying there is no general consensus.
Or what about a mid sized kite on mid length lines is the easiest for tacks ;)

Yodarocket31 wrote: What about tacking with foil kites vs tube/LEI kites?

I am using North Rebel + Sword2 foil. I can tack in both directions/both sides consistently, but I can only maintain foiling when I loop the kite as I switch feet.

If I simply dive the kite normally, I never seem to get enough lift from a North Rebel and the board always touches down on the water. But maybe my timing/technique is still off and I am diving the kite too late in the tack??

Frank, in one of your videos I see you looping a tube/LEI kite with every tack. Is this because the wind was light, or because these kites simply do not generate enough lift?

Most LEI kites do not offer the same lift during transitions as high aspect foil kites, most people would say that this is why foils make it easier.
Some LEI kites do offer this more than most others, one of them I know is the Ozone Edge.

Regarding that video and me looping the kite out of the tack:
I think in that specific case it actually was to create power to ride/fly out of the maneuver with speed in a low wind situation (for that specific kite size).
But I also do this when well powered ( and also on foil kites) as a fun freeride maneuver. Of course this does not have anything to do with a racing maneuver as a lot of ground is lost while looping the kite which is contra productive when doing a tack in a racing scenario.

Cheers,
Frank
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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby phlow » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:32 pm

I just came across this video which is one of the more useful / well annotated ones I have seen, complete with kite positioning throughout the move.

phpBB [video]

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Re: Help - how to tack? Especially strapless

Postby cglazier » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:22 pm

The video above is excellent!

Here is a great picture of Johnny Heinekin tacking. He is going from port tack to starboard tack (which the other riders are all on). His board is still angled hard into the turn and he is pulling hard on his backhand as he is switching his feet. Try to visualize yourself doing this.. if you can get to this point, your tack will probably be successful.

:wink: CG
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