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Need some tips

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revhed
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Re: Need some tips

Postby revhed » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:13 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Never have the kite low

you should have evenly pressure on both feet

the balancing point is definitely rear foot behind the mast on all hydrofoils for balance.
I disagree completely about "never have kite low", maybe in the learning stage, but for sure not after one knows how to fly!
We quite often fly full long runs with the kite just above the water!

As for equal foot pressure, a few here are finding slightly more front foot pressure can be very comfortable and helpful for many moves!

The last statement is just false :nono: concerning balance point on "all hydrofoils" because of all the variables ie. delta V wing AoA setting, wing profiles and surface area, distance between STRUT LE and F wing lift area as related to fuse length and Stab mount location, ECT...
R H

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Re: Need some tips

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:33 am

We are talking about a beginner asking about tips, so this is exactly the "learning stage", so that is why kite low is a no no :roll:
Could list at least 7 reasons why not to...

Regarding stance, well, if you stand with legs apart (like a beginner does, and most experienced but not all), most or all hydrofoils with straight struts will lead to you standing on top or most often just behind the strut, never in front.

Furthermore, Tom asks if the should move his rear foot back, because he has 70% of the load on the rear foot - so YES, he has to for equal load and a better balance.

Okay, should have written "almost every single hydrofoil" instead of all, my mistake - but I havent seen any where you stand in front, yet, with a normal stance (only those standing really narrow, but not the topic here).

No, all the variables like area and profile dont mean much - you can still take a good balanced hydrofoil and they will (unless with a swept strut but these are rare) have approximately the same COE in rough terms.
We are not talking about differences in centimeters or inches like we get when changing wings and AOA and profile where we stand a bit further forward/rearward or move our straps.

We are talking about 15 cm / 6 inch differences or more :naughty:

If you make a "dog" yourself, or a brand does - yes things can change, but that is a different matter, compared to the mainstream well balanced hydrofoils we buy today :rollgrin:

8) PF

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Re: Need some tips

Postby revhed » Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:30 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
most or all hydrofoils with straight struts will lead to you standing on top or most often just behind the strut, never in front.

Okay, should have written "almost every single hydrofoil" instead of all, my mistake -

Yes, that I agree with because you wrote "most" and included "on top" unlike your first post.
Exception,
Remember well a very skilled fast foiler years ago flying a Sword 1 having his rear foot in front of the LE of the Strut because he chose to use loads of negative A o A on his stab and very narrow stance, very strange to see, but he flew well!
Used to have a photo but just searched and could not find.
R H

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Re: Need some tips

Postby abel » Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:13 pm

Peter_Frank wrote: Yes, your rear foot is way too far forward, you should have evenly pressure on both feet, but it works for starters, safer.
.....
As for the very first flights you typically stand too far forward on purpose, so you have to actively "pop it up" on a foil, but often drop down again.
.......
Just experiment and put your rear foot a bit further rear, the balancing point is definitely rear foot behind the mast on all hydrofoils for balance.
....

8) PF
Good! I was very confy about not airing as many beginners do, but I was not flying easily either!
So I moved the rear hooker one step back (2.5 cm ). I hope the next session I'm not going to swing the Hfoil over my head and into the lines again :wink:
The main issue is that my next possible session to try the new stance is two weeks ahead :(

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Re: Need some tips

Postby plummet » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:38 pm

I still want to hear why kite low is not recommended for beginners. I don't see a problem with it. Unless you are over powered.

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Re: Need some tips

Postby Starsky » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:53 pm

Seriously, isn't it pretty obvious?

Leads to more power and speed! On foil you can't simply edge out the power like on conventional boards. With the kite a bit higher its easier to head further upwind and kill some speed.

I certainly remember being sheeted right out and having a hard time inching the kite higher in the window. It's pretty natural for new foilers to use a kite size to get up that ends up with them feeling overpowered and sheeted way out when the speed hits.

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Re: Need some tips

Postby Cdog » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:53 pm

Well for me
Flying axe
I would naturally resume my normal kite flying technique which would be Kite low to haul ass and I would end up with the flying axe though the lines
it helped me a lot to keep the kite high trying to figure out how to ride the foil

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Re: Need some tips

Postby junebug » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:32 pm

plummet wrote:I still want to hear why kite low is not recommended for beginners. I don't see a problem with it. Unless you are over powered.
The only time I got the foil stuck in the lines was when I had the kite low, got going too fast for comfort, lost balance falling on my back foot, and shot the foil up through the low lines. If the kite had been higher it likely would have just been an ugly fall.

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Re: Need some tips

Postby TomW » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:40 am

Starsky wrote:Seriously, isn't it pretty obvious?

Leads to more power and speed! On foil you can't simply edge out the power like on conventional boards. With the kite a bit higher its easier to head further upwind and kill some speed.

I certainly remember being sheeted right out and having a hard time inching the kite higher in the window. It's pretty natural for new foilers to use a kite size to get up that ends up with them feeling overpowered and sheeted way out when the speed hits.
This is what I was experiencing, kite low, not over powered, but would pinch upwind at speed until crashing or be pointing too high. If I made " mistake " and went towards kite, yes I loose speed, but kite then stalls and hits water.
Or I am pointing up, kite low, sheeted all the way out, hard to get kite up in window, crash.

So for me, as beginner, it's pretty clear advice is to keep kite higher.

Thanks, Tom

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Re: Need some tips

Postby Blackrat » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:21 pm

I've found in powered conditions when the kite is low if you try to gently steer the kite up , or hang on the bar , all you do is speed up and go faster . I find a quick hard yank on the bar forces the kite to turn and then it goes back up

But yea kite high is deffo safer and easier


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