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Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:58 pm

Horst, you wrote it well, as this is the key why not interesting eventhough so many think so:

"Non hydrofoilers think: TT easier than directional, therefore: TT hydrofoil (TTH) easier than directional hydrofoil"

Which is NOT the case, just opposite, so that is a simple easy way to put it :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Oldman_Dave » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:47 pm

socommk23 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:59 am
Waaa waaaa waaaa
Purists are such dull people. How about trying it because its different? Or to at least have an informed opinion? People knocking it without actually having a go are like people with political opinions without a vote.
Zzzzzzzzzz
This response was because you got excited about the iero foil on a different forum and it got shot down exactly the same way by pretty much everyone else there too, didn't it? Not the first go around this particular mulberry bush. That's why you brought the attitude here so fast :lol:

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby socommk23 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:24 pm

Oldman_Dave wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:47 pm
socommk23 wrote:
Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:59 am
Waaa waaaa waaaa
Purists are such dull people. How about trying it because its different? Or to at least have an informed opinion? People knocking it without actually having a go are like people with political opinions without a vote.
Zzzzzzzzzz
This response was because you got excited about the iero foil on a different forum and it got shot down exactly the same way by pretty much everyone else there too, didn't it? Not the first go around this particular mulberry bush. That's why you brought the attitude here so fast :lol:
Brought it here because its the same shit different day.
My opinion has less worth (neither i or many others have ridden the tt foil) just because it differs from yours!
You might not like it, and shoot the idea down without trying it. Doesnt mean its a bad idea. No its not for racing like the traditional foil so it wont perform or pretend to be. But its a good way to taste foiling while making it easily accessible to a tt rider.
Nice of you to join the party with no real opinion or experience or anything valuable to add other than a personal attack. Well done you. I applaud your cunning ability to belittle someone rather than be if any value to the conversation.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Kamikuza » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:33 pm

socommk23 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:24 pm
Brought it here because its the same shit different day.
My opinion has less worth (neither i or many others have ridden the tt foil) just because it differs from yours!
You might not like it, and shoot the idea down without trying it. Doesnt mean its a bad idea. No its not for racing like the traditional foil so it wont perform or pretend to be. But its a good way to taste foiling while making it easily accessible to a tt rider.
Nice of you to join the party with no real opinion or experience or anything valuable to add other than a personal attack. Well done you. I applaud your cunning ability to belittle someone rather than be if any value to the conversation.
It's just a poor idea. You've got guys here who've been designing, building and riding foils for years telling you what's wrong with it . . . take that as your cue that your opinion on this matter is simply mistaken.

I haven't tried eating soup with a fork, but I can tell you it's not going to be better than a spoon. Even if it is actually possible.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby evan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:24 pm

A twintip planing board gets very close to a directional in terms of performance, speed and stability because you ride a surface skimming board with only the tail in/on the water with the nose eating up the chop. But the tail of a twintip is just as directionally designed. That is why a directional has a slight edge over twintips because the nose eats chop better and has bigger and better placed fins.

When observing that a normal twintip and directional are very close tricks you into thinking It would be the same with hydrofoils.
A foil is always submerged, so you can not lift the nose out of the water but really must try designing an "airplane or kite" to fly as good backwards as forwards. With the current technology that means a huge step back in stability, speed and drag. So they are slower and harder to learn on with less low-end than the current directional hydrofoils.

Who knows what the future brings, but a twintip hydrofoil needs to be very close to the directional foils to get accepted just like the other twintips in the early 2000's that where easier to handle for a beginner in the end.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby socommk23 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:35 pm

Kamikuza wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:33 pm
socommk23 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:24 pm
Brought it here because its the same shit different day.
My opinion has less worth (neither i or many others have ridden the tt foil) just because it differs from yours!
You might not like it, and shoot the idea down without trying it. Doesnt mean its a bad idea. No its not for racing like the traditional foil so it wont perform or pretend to be. But its a good way to taste foiling while making it easily accessible to a tt rider.
Nice of you to join the party with no real opinion or experience or anything valuable to add other than a personal attack. Well done you. I applaud your cunning ability to belittle someone rather than be if any value to the conversation.
It's just a poor idea. You've got guys here who've been designing, building and riding foils for years telling you what's wrong with it . . . take that as your cue that your opinion on this matter is simply mistaken.

I haven't tried eating soup with a fork, but I can tell you it's not going to be better than a spoon. Even if it is actually possible.
You may have guys here designing and building foils....but i count 3 maybe more companies developing these for the market. So cant be all that bad.

Im sure they are designed completely different to the foils we all know. As in not even for comparison.
Just a new way to enjoy kite sports.

Ok you may not like the idea because its not ultimate high performance. But not everything has to be.
How about just fun. Maybe a stepping stone to get people interested in foiling.

So your not on the market for one. But maybe someone is.

I dont understand why my open mindedness towards a new idea is taken as so offencive by purists here.

If you dont like it...step away. But others maybe interested enough to look into it and try it. Why work so hard to put people off?

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm

Some might be purists indeed yes.

But most here are freeriders enjoying the hydrofoil sport, and many want it to be AS EASY AND FUN as possible :D

So no, it is not about performance, but about ease of riding, so unless something completely new that noone had thought about appears, the TT foils are more difficult to ride - so the assumption "Twintips are easy to learn on, thus it MUST be the same on a TT hydrofoil", is simply just wrong now, no doubt at all :rollgrin:

Of course, many brands will aim for those (like you maybe ?) having such a firm belief that they refuse to listen and see the facts, that they might sell based solely on this.

8) PF

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby borist » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:09 pm

socommk23 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:24 pm
...You might not like it, and shoot the idea down without trying it. Doesnt mean its a bad idea. No its not for racing like the traditional foil so it wont perform or pretend to be. But its a good way to taste foiling while making it easily accessible to a tt rider....
Time when all foils were judged by their ability to go fast around the course is gone. There are many other criteria we judge "traditional foil" by now. Interest in TT hydrofoil was much bigger in those days (~3 years ago). There have been few attempts to make one that worked well since then, with very little to show. So far the premise that TTHF will make it ease to get into HF proved to be false. Design challenge to make TTHF that is efficient enough to be worthwhile purchase is very big. Physics are against it. Foil that vibrates, is unstable, unpredictable and draggy is not the foil that is easy to ride, which is what one needs to have any kind of fun riding it. Making a wing to fly backwards does create these issues. If you design a wing that can change its orientation some clever way and readjust the balance, you may be able to get close to having efficient and fun HF, but cost and complexity would likely make it impractical.
"Efficient and fun foil" in not racing foil in my mind, but stable, smooth, predictable, nimble and well jumping one.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby evan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:13 pm

Normal twintips are not slow. In fact, most of them can be pushed to speeds beyond what is possible on the fastest racefoil setup when powerd on flat water.

Hydrofoils have a very hard build-in upper limit, go faster and ut becomes unrideably unstable. that's what I was trying to point out. Low-aspect poorly designed unstable foils have that upper speedlimit at walking speed and will get boring very fast, even for total beginners. Everyone i know that had a cabrinha/carafino type slow foil moved to a more allround one within a year or quit and the twintip designs are not better in any way than those foils.....
borist wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:09 pm
"Efficient and fun foil" in not racing foil in my mind, but stable, smooth, predictable, nimble and well jumping one.
Funny, my racefoil ticks all those boxes ;)

Maybe not the tight 'turning at slow speed' type, but i count reactiveness and precision under nimble as well.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby kiterocky » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 pm

Ok in this 3 page of comment no one have tested a ierofoil.. But i know they sell many.. Anyone? Maybe some People want only jump with 8 10 knot and twintip.... If u want speed and race buy a regular foil... Personaly Im only interest in some relax freestyle when the Wind its too much light.. If Wind pick up i dont need foil but surf or twintip... Again some have tested? Thanku


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