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food for thought - strut position

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Dwight
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Re: food for thought - strut position

Postby Dwight » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 am

Figure 2 matches Horue, which I own and use for windsurfing and kiting.

Figure 3 matches other windsurf foils, F4, Neil Pryde, etc.

Figure 1 matches most standard kite foils.

So having experience with those, I can say figure 2 feels more surfy. It gives a feeling of carving off the tail instead of pivot between your feet. I think figure 3 might do the same.

I have wondered if figure 1 designs should go away in favor of the better feel of figure 2 when used with a kite. This would make windsurf and kite foils more interchangeable. FYI I use the high wind windsurf wing Horue offers when I kite with it.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: food for thought - strut position

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:42 pm

Dwight wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:56 am
Figure 2 matches Horue, which I own and use for windsurfing and kiting.

Figure 3 matches other windsurf foils, F4, Neil Pryde, etc.

Figure 1 matches most standard kite foils.

So having experience with those, I can say figure 2 feels more surfy. It gives a feeling of carving off the tail instead of pivot between your feet. I think figure 3 might do the same.

I have wondered if figure 1 designs should go away in favor of the better feel of figure 2 when used with a kite. This would make windsurf and kite foils more interchangeable. FYI I use the high wind windsurf wing Horue offers when I kite with it.

You have got the exact same wingset and fuselage, with two different masts, one straight and one raked back?

If not precisely the same, they (wings+ fuselage) will have a huge amount of influence.

Must say I can not see why #2 should be more surfy at all, as you have only got about one third of your bottom part of the mast in the water right?
When carving or riding waves sometimes even less in the water, as you have to get the wing all up to the surface for lay down carves.

#3 is IMO only chosen by windfoils, because windsurfers got this (stupid) Tuttle box position far aft which are great for windsurf fins yes, but NOT because it is the best balancing point at all for a windfoil, and definitely THE worst mechanical place to make the connection to the board.

It would be better to use #6 (I put on your drawing jaros) if you wanted a more tracking feel (like on windsurf waveboards and on surfboards, we also know that too far aft and big fins track well, but you lose the liveliness and surfy feel at some point).
#6 would be a mast raked rearwards down like #5, just mounted on the fuselage somewhat behind the wing.
This way you would get a perfect mechanical load, low stress on the board, and you would also get the "fin" effect when foiling :naughty:
On the cost of higher fuselage stress, but this is needed and no way to avoid it.
And not worse than #3 regarding fuselage connection - and a spot on board connection :D And a great seaweed hook :o

I still think that years of trying everything, has lead to #1 being the one most like regarding "feel", besides being the strongest that still works maybe spot on.

Might be wrong and it is solely because of structural issues it is not further rear, but I think it has been developed and finetuned well over so many years, that it is the position most likes.
(Having seen my friends testing on different positions too, and discussing the results)
That being said, there will always be some who prefer it differently of course :roll:

Struts.jpg

8) PF

Dwight
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Re: food for thought - strut position

Postby Dwight » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:13 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:42 pm

You have got the exact same wingset and fuselage, with two different masts, one straight and one raked back?
No, I have one mast that is raked.

I have two front wings. Large and small. The small is rated at 18 knots and up for windsurfer use, and 8 knots and up for kite use. The large wing is too stiff turning for kite use. Large wing is perfect for windsurfing.

I build my own boards, so it was no problem to build a kiteboard with deep Tuttle box located 3 inches from tail, same as on a windsurfer.

if you ever get a chance to try this setup, you should give it a go.

We need to keep open mind to all possibilities

Here is a photo I took of my friend trying my board and Horue

https://instagram.com/p/BNXrfPLgUKc/

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Peter_Frank
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Re: food for thought - strut position

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:48 am

Dwight wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:13 am
Snip...

We need to keep open mind to all possibilities

Exactly, this is why I would say you should try #6 instead, if you want a rearward mast for a surfy feel, and a much stronger board connection (meaning stiffer and lighter board too) :thumb:

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