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Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

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Kykeon
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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby Kykeon » Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:20 pm

Thank you Peter ! You are a great ambassador of the sport!

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby dylan* » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:48 pm

If you have a dinghy why not use it to shuttle you out into deep water? :D

Everyone says how easy it is to go upwind with the foil (it is) but I've also seen a lot of people struggle with it, especially in light wind when you have to figure out the balance between kite power and keeping the board up out of the water. You will likely have to try it for yourself, you might be going upwind immediately or you might end up downwind for a couple of sessions. If you have a short mast, I would suggest just swimming upwind (you can lie on your back and kick with your kite at 12 o'clock) far enough to water start with some margin of error, and see how you get on.

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:52 am

When the wind is really poor, I swim right upwind with kite at the zenith and push the board now and then.

But actually, I recently adopted a new method in marginal winds : foil down, pointing almost upwind (say 15 degree), lay on your board (head near the front footstrap). Place your kite almost at the zenith, say 11h then let the bar go and palm with your hands as if to catch a wave on a surf. Every now and then (say every 10-20 palms) you will need to pull the bar 1 second with your "rear" end to keep the kite oscillating between 10h and 12h.
You go very fast away from shore and generate a very useful relative wind to keep the kite in the air !
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby alexrider » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:07 am

My technique is a variation of Gunnar's. I'm holding the board's edge far more forward (in front of the front strap) and my body is pressing against the board, almost belly up. Very comfortable position indeed. I'm holding the board more forward to use the forward wing as a keel AND to prevent it from stalling (most important!). Center of pressure somewhere between your front hand and where the body presses on the board, in line with the wing's center of lift.
If there is enough wind for the kite to fly (at least a foilkite), there is no need to paddle the feet to help, since you should be able to body-cruise at 2 knots if you've got the technique right (finding the ideal angle of attack of the foil) and a decent foilkite. With Gunnar's method, I am unable to keep the angle of attack of the main wing low enough to prevent it from stalling. Peter's preferred method cannot be used to body drag out of shallow water (which is my main purpose) and body dragging belly up is more comfortable than walking against wind and tide. :cool2:
I suggest we organise a body-board-drag race to see whose method is best! :P

This was this morning in barely 6 knots of wind:
2017-08-24_173042.jpg

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby AGK » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:32 pm

I've been trying with very limited success to figure out shallow-water dragging -- this is an incredibly helpful thread -- please keep the detailed descriptions and pictures coming. Thanks!!!!

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:25 pm

alexrider wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:07 am
My technique is a variation of Gunnar's. I'm holding the board's edge far more forward (in front of the front strap) and my body is pressing against the board, almost belly up. Very comfortable position indeed. I'm holding the board more forward to use the forward wing as a keel AND to prevent it from stalling (most important!). Center of pressure somewhere between your front hand and where the body presses on the board, in line with the wing's center of lift.
If there is enough wind for the kite to fly (at least a foilkite), there is no need to paddle the feet to help, since you should be able to body-cruise at 2 knots if you've got the technique right (finding the ideal angle of attack of the foil) and a decent foilkite. With Gunnar's method, I am unable to keep the angle of attack of the main wing low enough to prevent it from stalling. Peter's preferred method cannot be used to body drag out of shallow water (which is my main purpose) and body dragging belly up is more comfortable than walking against wind and tide. :cool2:
I suggest we organise a body-board-drag race to see whose method is best! :P

This was this morning in barely 6 knots of wind:

2017-08-24_173042.jpg
That's also a good way to prevent from murdering the top of your board with the harness hook...

I put my forearm flush against the board and hold on to one of the front foot straps, just like a medieval shield. I then "push the shield" against the water as I put the kite in the power zone and essentially lay on my back "shielding away" the water to get upwind. I've only done this a few times, but it's possible to engage the foil and literally rip through the impact zone at 10+ knots if you get this right.

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby TomW » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:45 am

Yes, it's not that easy. It takes some practice.
I'd like to point out that the board you use. It's nose rocker on bottom and deck, it's flotation, have a big influence on how to handle the board in the water.

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby gmb13 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:09 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:25 pm
alexrider wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:07 am
My technique is a variation of Gunnar's. I'm holding the board's edge far more forward (in front of the front strap) and my body is pressing against the board, almost belly up. Very comfortable position indeed. I'm holding the board more forward to use the forward wing as a keel AND to prevent it from stalling (most important!). Center of pressure somewhere between your front hand and where the body presses on the board, in line with the wing's center of lift.
If there is enough wind for the kite to fly (at least a foilkite), there is no need to paddle the feet to help, since you should be able to body-cruise at 2 knots if you've got the technique right (finding the ideal angle of attack of the foil) and a decent foilkite. With Gunnar's method, I am unable to keep the angle of attack of the main wing low enough to prevent it from stalling. Peter's preferred method cannot be used to body drag out of shallow water (which is my main purpose) and body dragging belly up is more comfortable than walking against wind and tide. :cool2:
I suggest we organise a body-board-drag race to see whose method is best! :P

This was this morning in barely 6 knots of wind:

2017-08-24_173042.jpg
That's also a good way to prevent from murdering the top of your board with the harness hook...

It is also a very good way to accidentally activate your QR with the rail of the board.

If you are having trouble with the board going upwind too far, try holding it a bit (10cm) further up the board.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby dylan* » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:38 pm

This might be a stupid question but... if it's too shallow for the foil to be in the water, why not just stand up and walk it out?

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Re: Foil vs TT at Body/Board dragging!

Postby alexrider » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:16 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:09 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:25 pm
....

That's also a good way to prevent from murdering the top of your board with the harness hook...

It is also a very good way to accidentally activate your QR with the rail of the board. :naughty:

If you are having trouble with the board going upwind too far, try holding it a bit (10cm) further up the board.

--
Gunnar
Yes, the possibility of accidentally activating the QR (especially with Flysurfer bars) is something one must be attentive to during the early "positioning" phase.
It's been a long time, but for other situations, that I was thinking of a way to momentarily lock that type of QR. Most of my dropping kite in the water was because of the design of the bloody QR, combined of course with my innate inattention. :x


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