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toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

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Peter_Frank
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Re: toeside 180 tack . . . anyone got advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:24 pm

Strapless, almost 100 % of the time - but love to mount straps and jump occasionally in the summer, but not that often anymore.

8) PF

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Re: toeside 180 tack . . . anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:45 pm

I’m riding with 2 front straps for now. I want to get toeside 180s/360s and tacks nailed down to near 100% before I take the straps off, which will be a while.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:21 am

Are you guys looping your toeside 180s? I don’t loop my heelside 180s, but I’m finding I need the loop to help get my board around on toeside 180s. It’s probably because I’m bleeding too much speed on the upwind carve, but I’m wondering if is best to learn the toeside 180 with a loop and then drop the loop once I’m more efficient at the upwind carve. I watched a bunch of BRM videos yesterday, and it looks like Drexler often loops his toeside 180s.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:50 am

junebug wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:21 am
Are you guys looping your toeside 180s? I don’t loop my heelside 180s, but I’m finding I need the loop to help get my board around on toeside 180s. It’s probably because I’m bleeding too much speed on the upwind carve, but I’m wondering if is best to learn the toeside 180 with a loop and then drop the loop once I’m more efficient at the upwind carve. I watched a bunch of BRM videos yesterday, and it looks like Drexler often loops his toeside 180s.
It really depends on how much power you have, if you are riding underpowered like Drexler you will need loop almost all the time to be able to keep on the foil.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:08 pm

I'm starting to get toeside 360s sorted. I have a few observations:

1. Unlike heelside 360s, I find it way harder to do toeside 360s in switch than in regular. I have a much harder time getting the nose of the board around in switch because my boardriding skills in switch aren't as natural and the upwind carve is extreme.
2. I'm still getting the timing figured out, but I need to pull in on the bar and start the downwind dive in the opposite direction much sooner than I would have thought.
3. Speed is essential to learn this maneuver. You have to carve hard enough upwind to get on the other side of the lines, which requires more speed than I realized.
4. It seems like I should just be able to take the same principles from heelside 360s and apply them toeside, but it feels so different from heelside my brain just doesn't really work in the moment. I guess I just have to do them over and over, varying things a little bit every time, until it feels right.
5. This maneuver puts a lot of pressure on my shoulder because of the arm position when you carve upwind and creates a lot of tension in my biceps muscles because I'm doing a one-handed loop. This is not a good maneuver to learn for someone with shoulder problems. It may be possible to do them with two hands on the bar to relieve some of the bicep tension, but that puts the upper body in a really awkward position.
6. Just like when I learned heelside 360s/180s, I'm finding toeside 360s much easier than 180s. For 180s, I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to time coming out of the kiteloop to stop at 180. If anyone has any insight on this I'd love to hear it.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby juandesooka » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:23 pm

Good on ya Junebug. It's spring and I am turning my mind to this again ... got up the courage to initiate the upwind turn a couple times yesterday, as expected, yard sale falling off the backwards with kite loop. LOL

I am going to do another land session with trainer first to get my head around the mechanics. Also going to focus on tacks on surfboard too, to get the upwind turn process dialed in before involving the extra bits with the foil. Much like backrolls, I have some mental block about this ... and probably like backrolls, "easy once you know how". ;-)

Also going to wait til water and temps warm up more. At the stage of foiling that I might go a session cruising without any water in my suit. Working on moves means crashes, with sudden flush of water....brrrrr.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Thu May 31, 2018 4:21 am

I’m back on the water after 2 months off due to injury to my brachialis tendons, caused, in no small part, by the strain of doing repeated one handed loops while learning toeside 360s. So, I’m going to focus on toeside 180s instead for a while.

I worked on them today. Moving from heelside 360s to heelside 180s was relatively intuitive, but I’m finding moving from toeside 360s to toeside 180s to be much harder. I had a bit of a breakthrough today when I realized that I was leaning into the turn too much, putting the weight on my harness instead of my feet, and I was way too late on getting the kite through apex in relation to the upwind carve, which was causing me to stall out. For 360s, you can compensate for this by just pulling hard with your back hand as you cross through upwind to loop the kite and use the power in the loop to continue on toeside, but for 180s, it feels like you have to get the kite through apex before you pass the board through upwind, and that you have to shift your weight to your new back foot as you pass through dead upwind. You can sort of see Greg Drexler figuring out the timing of the weight distribution on the early BRM videos before he could do it foiling all the way around. He usually ended up swinging his weight to his back foot and dropping off foil for a brief second.

What’s strange is that I figured this out by trying a 180 in switch stance after about 25 failed attempts on my strong side today (after many previous failed attempts in prior sessions). I almost got it on my first try riding switch, likely because I don’t have the board skills in switch to yaw the board as quickly through upwind, so I instinctively relied on my kite dive the other way to sort of pull me through upwind. I tried to take the same principles that I instinctively did in switch and apply them to my stronger side, and it took me about 25 more attempts to start to get the feeling of the correct weight shift.

I still have a very long way to go, but this is starting to feel like the right track.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:41 am

So my claim of a breakthrough was premature. I probably tried about 50 toeside 180s today, all with the same result — I got the board through upwind but I either couldn’t stop the loop and did a 360 instead or, if I did stop the loop, I stalled out.

I’m not really sure what I am doing wrong, but my guess is I’m still dangling from the harness too much, over carving, and bleeding too much speed, causing me either stall or need the power of a loop to keep going.

I’ll confess — this one is frustrating me.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby junebug » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 am

So, sorry this thread has become just me posting about my experience learning this maneuver, but I am finally starting to figure out the 180. My problem, carried over from learning the 360 first, was that I was diving the kite too early and too aggressively. I knew this had to change to get the 180, but, for some reason, I had a mental block about delaying the kite dive and being less aggressive with it. It finally clicked today. Although my success rate was still low, today, I was at least able to stop the rotation and ride out 180, even though the board was on the water almost every try. I’m still dangling my body too much from the harness instead of putting my weight on my feet, which is probably what is causing me bleed speed and come off the foil.

Looking forward to working on these over the next few weeks and months.

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Re: toeside 180 tack ... anyone got advice

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:13 am

junebug wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:24 am
So, sorry this thread has become just me posting about my experience learning this maneuver, but I am finally starting to figure out the 180. My problem, carried over from learning the 360 first, was that I was diving the kite too early and too aggressively. I knew this had to change to get the 180, but, for some reason, I had a mental block about delaying the kite dive and being less aggressive with it. It finally clicked today. Although my success rate was still low, today, I was at least able to stop the rotation and ride out 180, even though the board was on the water almost every try. I’m still dangling my body too much from the harness instead of putting my weight on my feet, which is probably what is causing me bleed speed and come off the foil.

Looking forward to working on these over the next few weeks and months.
I find that being more powered helps with the 180. You are used to loop the kite for the 360, so you have plenty of power, now if you dont loop it the powered will be much less, and power is crucial for the direction change without touching down.

At first i could not do the 180s with my big kites in lightwind because of this, not enough pull in the opposite direction.


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