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-ing gear for the lightest of the winds

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Rufusz
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Rufusz » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:59 am

My 15m2 foilkite gets me going in really light winds but I have to depower it most of the times and if the wind picks up it becomes overpowered quickly.

I guess 12m2 would be my sweet spot for LW (85 kg rider).

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Peter_Frank
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:14 am

I am pretty sure Dave and me are talking the ultimate lowest wind possible to hydrofoil in, when you can not go upwind.

Which is lower than when you can start, say 5-6 knots you can start in, because once you are going you can keep on till you make a mistake in a tack or jibe or similar or even just when turning it is "the end" of course, no matter how good you are.

In this wind, maybe 3-4 knots ? the most efficient foils and efficient wings (and size too) is of utmost importance, if you want to be able to hold ground because of pinching the window as said.

Lighter kites are better and easier to handle yes, but I would still say that efficiency (high AR and apparent wind power and high L/D) can ride in the lightest winds, even if a tad heavier :thumb:

High efficiency low weight is the best, but not easy to find - and the difference isnt a real gamechanger for (m)any, as most wont ride in winds where you can not stop without having to loop yourself back to shore (or a swim).

If there are some small puffs though, one can ride in less average wind than you can start, thus the overall efficiency is important to be able to hold ground as said.

The problem with these threads are, that we dont know if we are talking about the "same" low end, as numbers are almost useless.

Half a knot or one knot difference in wind makes it from impossible to more than okay, or from possible to easy - so we might be discussing apples and oranges here, without knowing :roll:

We should be out on the same day same wind same spot all of us, in 3-6 knots of wind, to compare this ultimate low end :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:33 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:14 am
The problem with these threads are, that we dont know if we are talking about the "same" low end, as numbers are almost useless.

Half a knot or one knot difference in wind makes it from impossible to more than okay, or from possible to easy - so we might be discussing apples and oranges here, without knowing :roll:

We should be out on the same day same wind same spot all of us, in 3-6 knots of wind, to compare this ultimate low end :naughty:
It is unfortunatelly so true ... I also try to avoid giving knots values in marginal winds but its the only reference unfortunately ; my definition of low end is indeed allowing waterstart and stay upwind; As you said we need less wind to ride once full speed on the foil, but it is not my reference since as you said it is not a real-life-everyday case (in the sense of being able or not to ride from beach ); now if waterstart is not part of the low end, then I agree with you that a race foilkite will allow to ride (kite parked) very soon, similar to medium AR kites if you do not try to have a tight upwind angle IMO ;

To try to give an idea of this low end differently than knots values, it is when a Speed4 Lotus or a strutless kite needs to be worked and looped on the beach to stay in the air (a sonic 1 or speed 3 would not fly event with a skilled pilot) ; wind sounds in the ears like when we you walk energically with zero wind but without running; I need to precise that it is for a very light rider ( 60 kg) and large foil wing medium AR like Ketos Easy.

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby nothing2seehere » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am

The windsurfers are convinced they will come away with the crown for the lightest winds needed. The AHD rep for the shop near me tells me with the new foil and special sail they have this year, he can get going in 4 knots and carry on riding on the foil. Now he's a talented rider so I'm not remotely suggesting you'll jump from one to the other and be at the ultimate low end threshold.

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:45 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am
The windsurfers are convinced they will come away with the crown for the lightest winds needed...
Even more so SUPers and kayakers. They can also go directly upwind.

I recall I could fly (at zenith pretty much) my 19m Speed3 Deluxe in 3.5-4 knots measured at the ground level and I rode an inflatable SUP with it in similar conditions but I'd say that doesn't count.

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:57 pm

grigorib wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:45 pm
nothing2seehere wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am
The windsurfers are convinced they will come away with the crown for the lightest winds needed...
Even more so SUPers and kayakers. They can also go directly upwind.

I recall I could fly (at zenith pretty much) my 19m Speed3 Deluxe in 3.5-4 knots measured at the ground level and I rode an inflatable SUP with it in similar conditions but I'd say that doesn't count.

But it DOES count actually...

Being planing or foiling is what it is all about, but if you can go upwind, it is also interesting non-planing.

Was it possible to go upwind ?

That is the problem usually, when pinching the window :roll:

I am not convinced that windfoils can start this low, meaning lower than a kitefoil - but time will tell :wink:

:D PF

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby gbrungra » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:01 pm

Windfoil has to be more fun to pack/paddle-in when the wind dies. So they would have more fun chasing the truest lightest winds.

When talking about lowest-end, windspeed matters plus/minus 1 knot and is hard to measure. But there's also the wind gradient and wind gusts/lulls to consider. (And air density), so my 4 knots might not be your 4 knots, even if we could agree on how to measure 4 knots!

Here's a question: no idea what the distance record is for foil-pumping(no kite, started by boat or wave), by the lets just say 200 meters. Could a kite foiler, if started by a boat but with zero wind, also pump along for the same 200 meters, while keeping their kite in the air(leaning against it a bit)?

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby BWD » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:13 pm

lets just say 200 meters.
Or miles?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S925_WttHhU

At least 50 miles has already been done....

To the question about a kiter, yes, if there is a current :naughty:

or waves :surf:

but would seem to be easier without the kite usually.

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:49 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:57 pm
grigorib wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:45 pm
nothing2seehere wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am
The windsurfers are convinced they will come away with the crown for the lightest winds needed...
Even more so SUPers and kayakers. They can also go directly upwind.

I recall I could fly (at zenith pretty much) my 19m Speed3 Deluxe in 3.5-4 knots measured at the ground level and I rode an inflatable SUP with it in similar conditions but I'd say that doesn't count.

But it DOES count actually...

Being planing or foiling is what it is all about, but if you can go upwind, it is also interesting non-planing.

Was it possible to go upwind ?
I think I went cross-wind and maintained. In very light wind when I needed to pay too much attention/input to the kite to keep it flying it was a nightmare to get onto the SUP without being pulled over it, and get it moving. Once going it wasn't that bad.
After missing previous day on a kiting trip because of no wind and not certain of wind on the day, that noon SUP kiting session somewhat counted for me.
Once I felt that 2-wrap Rev is flying I decided to take the 19m S3 out and at least I scored the experience :)

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby norcom » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:04 am

nothing2seehere wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:02 am
The windsurfers are convinced they will come away with the crown for the lightest winds needed. The AHD rep for the shop near me tells me with the new foil and special sail they have this year, he can get going in 4 knots and carry on riding on the foil. Now he's a talented rider so I'm not remotely suggesting you'll jump from one to the other and be at the ultimate low end threshold.
Would love to see what they'll have! I've thought about putting a foil on my Starboard Serenity because of how easy it could get to speed and get going with a large foil but with the 17' length of the board it just doesn't seem feasible. I'm guessing the AHD could partially be a displacement hull to generate speed before getting foiling. The thing is that I can't see a small sail getting the AHD foiling in 4knots. But I guess it's not really a problem if you don't mind using big sails.


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