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Tacking advice for a newb

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MattyM
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Tacking advice for a newb

Postby MattyM » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:27 pm

Could someone please explain to me the difference between a 'Duck Tack' and a 'Roll Tack'? Both these I understand involve changing sides via facing the front of the board, but my newbie brain is as yet unable to see the difference!

Watching surfboard tacks (in preparation for learning to do it on a foil), I see that you can also tack by changing sides via the rear of the board. However all tacks on a foil seem to be via the front. Is there a reason for this?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby Lokihel » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:51 pm

If you do a surfboard tack facing the back of the board, you will need to pull the nose of the board with your foot instead of following the board through the turn,
You can do this if you're doing a surface tack, but I imagine it is way too difficult if you want to do a flying tack.
Last edited by Lokihel on Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby davesails7 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:15 pm

I don't think the names are used consistently. I always thought facing the back of the board was a duck tack, but who knows.

As you pointed out though, there's two types of tacks: facing the front of the board or facing the back of the board.

If you want to tack on foil, facing the front of the board is far easier. If you just want to tack on the surface I think facing the back of the board tack is slightly easier. I'd go for the facing the front of the board tack though so you can eventually do it on foil.

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby MattyM » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:32 pm

Thanks guys - I did wonder if there was a difference between the Duck and Roll tacks. The reason I asked is that iKsurf magazine have two separate articles, one for the duck tack, one for the roll tack - and for the life of me I can't see the difference!

I need to crack my tacking on surfboard first before I progress to foil. I've tried running before I can walk before on a foil and only hurt myself! So I think I will settle for surface tacks for the time being!

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby cglazier » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:00 pm

davesails7 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:15 pm
As you pointed out though, there's two types of tacks: facing the front of the board or facing the back of the board.
If you want to tack on foil, facing the front of the board is far easier. If you just want to tack on the surface I think facing the back of the board tack is slightly easier. I'd go for the facing the front of the board tack though so you can eventually do it on foil.
Exactly.
In racing the roll tack (facing the front of the board) is always used because it provides better upwind progress during the maneuver. Notice that you come out of the roll tack with a twist in your lines and then need to unspin your bar.
When learning don't even think about trying to stay up on the foil, just doing it on the surface is challenging enough.
Here is a roll tack.
:wink:
CG
1980315_871771709501904_1031929649019760819_o (2016_02_18 18_21_59 UTC).jpg
1980315_871771709501904_1031929649019760819_o (2016_02_18 18_21_59 UTC).jpg (70.63 KiB) Viewed 570 times

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:18 pm

Duck tack you kick the nose downwind to spin the board 180*, with a roll tack you ride through the turn facing forward while switching feet (or not, it's still a roll tack if you ride out toeside)

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby jeromeL » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:27 pm

cglazier wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:00 pm
davesails7 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:15 pm
As you pointed out though, there's two types of tacks: facing the front of the board or facing the back of the board.
If you want to tack on foil, facing the front of the board is far easier. If you just want to tack on the surface I think facing the back of the board tack is slightly easier. I'd go for the facing the front of the board tack though so you can eventually do it on foil.
Exactly.
In racing the roll tack (facing the front of the board) is always used because it provides better upwind progress during the maneuver. Notice that you come out of the roll tack with a twist in your lines and then need to unspin your bar.
When learning don't even think about trying to stay up on the foil, just doing it on the surface is challenging enough.
Here is a roll tack.
:wink:
CG

1980315_871771709501904_1031929649019760819_o (2016_02_18 18_21_59 UTC).jpg
Took me a while to understand where wind is coming from, that's some crazy upwind angle!

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby dylan* » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:44 pm

MattyM wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:32 pm
Thanks guys - I did wonder if there was a difference between the Duck and Roll tacks. The reason I asked is that iKsurf magazine have two separate articles, one for the duck tack, one for the roll tack - and for the life of me I can't see the difference!

I need to crack my tacking on surfboard first before I progress to foil. I've tried running before I can walk before on a foil and only hurt myself! So I think I will settle for surface tacks for the time being!
fwiw i'm starting to land a few duck tacks on the foil, but i still can't do them for shit on the surfboard, not anywhere even close to landing one. so i wouldn't say you need to do one before the other, just give it a try and see how it goes.

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:46 pm

Lokihel wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:51 pm
Roll tack and duck are the same.
In my opinion the proper term is duck tack. A roll tack already exists in sailing, so the term has already been taken.

If you do a surfboard tack facing the back of the board, you will need to pull the nose of the board with your foot instead of following the board through the turn,
You can do this if you're doing a surface tack, but I image it is way too difficult if you want to do a flying tack.

True, a duck tack and roll tack is exactly the same, just different names as duck tack origins from windsurfing tacking while ducking under the sail, same way you move around nose of board through the wind, shifting stance head to the wind.
And roll tack came as I know of, when the first race hydrofoilers learned this now standard race tack, and it was labelled roll tack because it looks like you just "roll" your body/feet around, facing the wind.

It is a defined term in sailing thoug as you say, "roll tack" where you roll the boat to gain momentum and less rudderdrag so an efficient tack.

So I also call it duck tack on both waveboards and hydrofoils, when tacking going face into the wind.

Regarding a flying tack (normal tack), the good ones (or one) like Stephane can do these - I would love to just make one some day :naughty:
Might never happen, as I have only seen him do this tack flying :wink:

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Re: Tacking advice for a newb

Postby borist » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:41 pm

as Peter said. both duck and roll tacks are made facing nose of the board. duck tack is the term that was commonly used with this type of tack on surfboard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNVF9MCsYrs
roll tack seems to come from racing boards with two front straps that made the whole thing more fluid
Regarding a flying tack (normal tack), the good ones (or one) like Stephane can do these - I would love to just make one some day :naughty:
Might never happen, as I have only seen him do this tack flying :wink:
I think I've seen it here first (@1:50)
https://vimeo.com/123760947


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