Moses 2018

[Pedro Marcos]

Ive learned on the 550 Fluente, took me around 20 sessions to be able to foil both ways with some confidence. I believe that a bigger wing like the 590 or the Onda will make things abit easier and learning curve faster, specially went you will start trying to do foiling turns. Im not a fan of the shorter mast, i would get a 91 to start and upgrade later for a 101 or 111 depending on what you want to do. Regarding the board, for sure the T60 will make your life much easier then the T38, i did not try the T38 yet but looking just at dimensions it will have less volume and just that will a problem, having a "almost" flat board is also better to start. For me the T40 was the best beginner board.

Please dont think that because your are a competent kiter it will be easy, it WONT! I was doing all the handlepass stuff before i switched almost 100% to foiling and got quite surprise on how much time you need to put on it just to do basic stuff. One year and half later im still not 100% on all the "basic" 4 manouvers required to not fall on the race course, and i probably have close to 200 sessions now.

[cwood]

Just about to get my first foil, local dealer sells Moses so that is what it looks like it will be. A lot of windsurfing experience and kiting since 2004, 86kg.

Planining on getting the 590 Fluente Easy setup, but as always when I get beginner-level-stuff, concerned of out-growing it quickly.

I kite fast and love high-speed carving and boosting. Should i go for a 550 instead perhaps, and opt for a longer mast?

Also on the board selection. Have seen and heard a lot of love on the pocket boards and the feeling of flying. The T38 looks really nice and sports the mast tracks as well. Is it like a really bad idea to try learn on it?... I have a lot of kiting experience so I am thinking I will manage it somehow and then be happy because that is what I want to ride... But un-sure if the learning will be to hard.

On the board issue, for you that have seen them. The T38 seems to come with inserts, the T60 Sport is said on the web-shop to have inserts as well. Nothing mentioned on the T60 Carbon or Glass, but screws sold for straps are all self-threading as far as I can tell. Do you know which boards have inserts and which do not?

Thanks!

Not sure of your question on the inserts....do you mean threaded inserts vs plugs that use normal self tapping screws? My T40 and T60 all had self threading screws and drilled plugs. No issue. T38 has threaded 6mm inserts instead.

With respect to the learning and your interests.....if you like speed and high performance my opinion is that you will end up wanting at least a 101 mast. You won't have any easier time with the 91 vs 101 learning so go longer. The 590 is a nice free ride wing but not one that anyone I ride with has settled on as a fav after becoming proficient. Personally I like a 633 low wind and wave option on one end, and the 637 race on the other. I am not a fan of the 550, but I do very much like the 558. IF you were going to have only one wing, 558 would be it but it is not going to be easy to learn on. I did but it was a harder slog.

I think with a friendly wing like the 590 or 633 the t38 board would be fine to learn on. The 590 would do you for learning and a year of getting comfortable....then you can just change wings to meet your interests. You will already have a long mast so it just becomes a question of wing preference. The tracks on the board are key if you think you will be swapping wing selections. Moving footstraps sucks.

Happy to talk on the phone if you want.

[cwood]

I’ve tried both shimming points r.e stabiliser and mast to fuselage .
Both reduce front foot pressure equally , but I have experienced turbulence when shimming the rear stabiliser which I didn’t get with the other method .

Exactly what I was wondering! The shimmed stab setup felt a bit "grumbly" to me....just very slightly and I wasn't sure if it was the fat wing or the shim. Tell me more about how you did the mast to fuse shim.....what did you use and what thickness do you think would match a 3 degree stab shim?

[TomW]

Tom Tom
I learned on Fluente mast, still on it 2 years later. Learned on 550/ 330 wing set, been in 590 all this season a d today used my new 633.
I was in very powered conditions with hyperlink 9 m kite. Choppy and confused sea.
Based on this , I would actually recommend the 590 for learning. It has smoother more progressive lift, requiring some board speed. This will allow you as beginner to learn surface foiling and have easier control of take off. The 633 pops up way too soon for beginner, you cannot keep it from flying...
The 590/330 wings have far more yaw stability, this will make flying straight and have control easier. The 633 is like a go-cart. Super agile. Like a sports car with oversteer. The 590 is more like a BMW 5 series, and slight under steering.
Roll stability about the same.
633 handles turbulent water really well, and rear wing has less ventilation and whole set up is easy to recover from ventilation.

As beginner, I think Moses is spot on calling the Fluente Easy the starting set-up. You won't outgrow it either. And Moses wings are reasonable price so it's not a big cost to get the 550 or even 637 race wing to go faster or the 633 to go slow.

I was so surprised today. The 633 pops up incredibly fast and at slow speed..it can fly almost stopped if you have kite lift. I could fly slower than waves..very agile and turns much tighter than 590 , but can still take long carves and kinda pump through them .
It's a completely different animal. I definitely see the need to keep the 590 though. 590 and 550 are way more sporty and exciting with higher speed.
H
I had it on pocket board, worked great. But I can imagine using it on a big volume board as light wind machine.

[cwood]

DSC_1624.JPGTom Tom
I learned on Fluente mast, still on it 2 years later. Learned on 550/ 330 wing set, been in 590 all this season a d today used my new 633.
I was in very powered conditions with hyperlink 9 m kite. Choppy and confused sea.
Based on this , I would actually recommend the 590 for learning. It has smoother more progressive lift, requiring some board speed. This will allow you as beginner to learn surface foiling and have easier control of take off. The 633 pops up way too soon for beginner, you cannot keep it from flying...
The 590/330 wings have far more yaw stability, this will make flying straight and have control easier. The 633 is like a go-cart. Super agile. Like a sports car with oversteer. The 590 is more like a BMW 5 series, and slight under steering.
Roll stability about the same.
633 handles turbulent water really well, and rear wing has less ventilation and whole set up is easy to recover from ventilation.

As beginner, I think Moses is spot on calling the Fluente Easy the starting set-up. You won't outgrow it either. And Moses wings are reasonable price so it's not a big cost to get the 550 or even 637 race wing to go faster or the 633 to go slow.

I was so surprised today. The 633 pops up incredibly fast and at slow speed..it can fly almost stopped if you have kite lift. I could fly slower than waves..very agile and turns much tighter than 590 , but can still take long carves and kinda pump through them .
It's a completely different animal. I definitely see the need to keep the 590 though. 590 and 550 are way more sporty and exciting with higher speed.
H
I had it on pocket board, worked great. But I can imagine using it on a big volume board as light wind machine.

you make a good point on the immediate flying of the 633 maybe being an issue to learn on.

[TomW]

Simply put, the 633 flys too easy and is too loose in yaw stability for ideal learning. IMO after riding it once on pocket board = take with grain of salt.

That said, I imagine a person who's never tried anything else and uses a bigger board to stabilise the yaw might find it easy.
When I learned on the 550, the speed I had while flying and falling.... It was really scary and spectacular faceplants!

[Qiter]

Fully agree with the previous posters. Learned on the 550, but that is maybe not the best for learning compared to what other brands offer. That said, it might take you a bit longer to learn but you will not outgrow it, its fast and agile. I also own the Onda, which is certainly my go to wing to learn new moves now, as it foils at walking speed and its not so scary when you fall. I learned the footswitch foil jibe on the Onda within a few days after having tried it on the 550 for months with only about 10% of success despite hundreds of attempts. Once I had it dialed in on the Onda, I was much better on the 550, too.
Boards: The T40 or T60 are great boards, you can even sit on them when the wind dies. I would go with those instead of the short T38, which is a bit more technical.

[Flag53]

Hey cwood I’ve sent you an email

[Laughingman]

What would you guys recommend for a 125lb rider, she’s already foiling well on the happy foil. Medium aspect liquid force wings but I’d like to get her something with more glide so she can learn to jibe with flying foot switches etc. I have a Impulse foil but it’s got too much lift for her weight.

[cwood]

What would you guys recommend for a 125lb rider, she’s already foiling well on the happy foil. Medium aspect liquid force wings but I’d like to get her something with more glide so she can learn to jibe with flying foot switches etc. I have a Impulse foil but it’s got too much lift for her weight.

No such thing as "too much lift" for a given weight. If you have the center of gravity correct it doesn't matter what you weigh....its about having the wing(s) flying stable elevation wise. If you put a lighter rider on your setup, then you have to move the mast back or move the footstraps forward to get the same balanced ride. It could have "too much lift" if you run out of adjustment. A Moses 590 on a 91 cm mast is a great general setup for someone who can already foil and wants a bit more performance. My GF is on 91 and 550 after having learned on a Slingshot Hovergiide. Seamless transition.