wings for using smallest kite possible

[bigtone667]

From my short (10 minutes) experience with kiting on a SUP foil, it's very appropriate to tiny kites in decent winds, not so sure in marginal winds. The reality of usability of surf foils in light winds is quite constrained by the fact that you need to keep that kite in the air at all times, which greatly limits what you can do in terms of carving and angles of ride.

I am probably up to 250-300km worth of travel on a SUP foil now in wind ranges from 7 to 15 knots. I am massive fan of my Zeeko's, but I won't even bother using Zeeko Carver or Spitfire/XLW anymore in sub ten knots.

I am using a smaller kite generally and/or kiting on lower wind days with the SUP foil. It has been quite a revelation for me that something so big and so slow has such awesome lift and glide. I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.

[bragnouff]

I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.

Maybe your kites are more suited to those lightwind conditions. My biggest is a 12m Enduro, which I like for a bit of everything, but I find it lacks a bit of response when carving aggressively downwind in its lowest range, which is completely expected. A couple more knots and it follows nicely, is more responsive in the turns, and this lets you carve that swell the way you want. Being forced to loop the kite takes a bit of the spontaneity out of your turns, and anyway it's not that fast and snappy to complete a turn and reengage before you can link another one. Carving in these conditions feels to me a bit forced and sluggish, and I tend to keep that for windier days, and instead just enjoy long smooth and reasonably fast runs in light winds, whilst still looping the kite whenever required in transitions. Personal choice maybe.

[bigtone667]

[bigtone667]

I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.

Maybe your kites are more suited to those lightwind conditions. My biggest is a 12m Enduro, which I like for a bit of everything, but I find it lacks a bit of response when carving aggressively downwind in its lowest range, which is completely expected. A couple more knots and it follows nicely, is more responsive in the turns, and this lets you carve that swell the way you want. Being forced to loop the kite takes a bit of the spontaneity out of your turns, and anyway it's not that fast and snappy to complete a turn and reengage before you can link another one. Carving in these conditions feels to me a bit forced and sluggish, and I tend to keep that for windier days, and instead just enjoy long smooth and reasonably fast runs in light winds, whilst still looping the kite whenever required in transitions. Personal choice maybe.

That is a very valid point. I was carving around in about 8-10 knots yesterday and constantly losing line tension, but because I was flying a strutless with quite decent drift I was doing fine.

Could not have done it with a 3 strut kite.

[gmb13]

So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.

It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar

[cwood]

My mistake! So in brief with what is available on the market these days, favour total surface area at the highest AR possible (probably a windfoil wing).

Check out the Alpine ULW......Yuge!

[TomW]

So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.

It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar

Thanks Gunnar. I'll keep my moses 550/330 wings and that's good for moderate speeds and freestyle.
I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Moses says I can put the Onda wings and fuselage on my Fluente mast.
That's 800€. But cheaper than buying a totally new foil, less gear, and an easy change in the parking lot. Only 2 screws.

Then I could get 558 front wing and go faster.

I'd like to hear a review from you on the Onda 633/483 used for kiting before buying.

[Peter_Frank]

Snip...

I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Snip...

Amazing so different we are...

For light conditions the big wings are awesome.

But for choppy wave confused water, and more wind, a long mast and a faster wing is IMO way easier and more fun to ride for me

Probably just individual differences

PF

[gmb13]

So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.

It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar

Thanks Gunnar. I'll keep my moses 550/330 wings and that's good for moderate speeds and freestyle.
I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Moses says I can put the Onda wings and fuselage on my Fluente mast.
That's 800€. But cheaper than buying a totally new foil, less gear, and an easy change in the parking lot. Only 2 screws.

Then I could get 558 front wing and go faster.

I'd like to hear a review from you on the Onda 633/483 used for kiting before buying.

Yes. The Onda 61 should be good. I am getting my Onda 61 soon and will be doing a video as soon as I can.

--
Gunnar

[TomW]

Gunnar, which wing?
The 633 is a pump and downwind
The 683 is surf sup.