revhed wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:29 pm
How do you initiate the counter steer?
Do you counter counter steer?
How do you initiate that? By counter counter counter steering?
Must say a little, no VERY tired of bike, and plane comparisons simply because our KBHFs have NO gyroscopic effect, OR use independent control surfaces.
I am not sure either way, also about yaw and roll, but will with pleasure read any and all posts directly relating to our under water flying sport toys.
OK, revhed, just for you
In my mind I am almost as passionate as you about this great sport so I can understand your hunger for details. My experience is from other sports as well (Windsurfing, snowboarding, skiing, motorbiking, MTB, skateboarding, paragliding, golf, tennis, rowing, …. so I have a little experience in physics and applied forces and can compare from the other sports`experiences. But I know not all and might be wrong… English is not my native language so I might pick here and there the not total correct tech jargon.
First: Did you make my suggested self test? Do you believe/accept that countersteering in general is a thing that really exists although you might not feel it?
Second: The mast/strut is submerged under water for some part while foiling, OK. Do you believe/accept that the mast can transfer inputs from the rider to the water just like the rider transfers inputs to the wings, for example whilst kangarooing ? Do you believe/accept that the change of AOA of the mast has quite the same effect than the change of AOA of the wings? We all know how much effect even one degree change can make with the wings, right?
Third: When the foil (wings and must/strut) is travelling in the water, then this is the contact patch of the whole foil/rider/kite system where force can be applied to. Just like when an ice yacht is traveling over the ice, the blade of the skate is leading the whole system in the direction where the longitudinal axis of the blade is pointing to. It is quite hard to manipulate the ice yacht out of the direction where the skates are pointing to when the blades have good grip on the ice. Our hydrofoil has this kind of grip in the water. Can you believe/accept that?
Fourth: Watch Mitakas linked video https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QqozDNT0UY
(Not so important but just to complete the following information and make it clearer: The foil in the water shows great resistance in the direction sideways to the chord, just like the skate shows resistance when you try to push the blade sideways over the ice, OK we all know that. The foil shows very little resistance when for example pushed in the direction of the chord, OK we all know that too and love the effect
) Important: The foil shows very little resistance when turned to change the AOA. You know how little force it takes to change the AOA of the wings, you just put a tad more pressure on either the front or rear foot and have an immediate (!) and clear response. Pretend the lady in the video would stand on the hydrofoil, then imagine what happens when she twists/turns/yaws her body. The upper body turns in one way, the lower body turns the other, because in this rotating movement the disc has very little resistance. Just like the mast/strut would give very little resistance when only AOA is changed. Do you believe/accept that the force for changing the AOA of the mast/strut can be just as little as for the wings?
If you can answer the above four statements with “yes” then let`s put the information together:
The turn is initiated by the rider twisting like the lady in the video. The rider needs not necessarily an contact patch to push himself away or towards to. By twisting the body the described way the AOA of the strut/mast is changed, actio = reactio, I do not ask you if you believe this, it should be proven enough
When travelling at a certain speed your body has a momentum, it wants to travel the direction it started until a new/additional force is applied, we all know that. By changing the AOA of the mast/strut, the whole foil underneath you is pulled/pushed “out from under” you sideways (just like the wings would be pulled/pushed up or down when AOA of the wings would change, remember the contact patch and the good “grip” in the water?).
This is the countersteering. It was initated by the rider body`s twist itself. No further initiation or counter counter counter force needed. This countersteering leads to the most immediate and clear change of roll/lean which is needed for the turn.
I never said that yaw is the only thing to turn a KBHF. But I believe (and know for myself
) strongly that just like the impact of the change of AOA is massive for the wings, the effect is as massive for the change of AOG of the mast/strut. Besides: That`s why I stated in another post that for me the mast/strut should be called “rudder” instead. I really mean this, but I seem to be the only guy thinking this way, so please lower your blood pressure again, no need to worry about your beloved “strut”
It generally makes no difference if we ride as straight as possible or try to turn little or massive, but because of the above said we always have to correct AOA of the mast/strut constantly just like we always have to correct AOA of the wings. And yes, riding and turning it`s of course always a combination of both.
Yes, in other sports you can push yourself more easily from a given contact patch into the lean/roll. But the effect of for example sheeting the kite has not the immediate and clear response as the change of AOA but of course you use it additionally.
Because the slightest change of AOA is so massively immediate and clear it is so brutal when not under control, especially the effect of the mast/strut. See all the crashes from beginners even at low speed and low wind. (Just like a highsider with a motorbike, sorry for the comparison with motorbike
) I ask everybody if you have seen this kind of brutal crashes from mistakes from kite control in low winds/speeds in TT beginners?
If you do not agree with the essence of the four points above that`s very fine. Right now I can`t explain any better….